Lojban In General

Posted by lukebergen on Mon 23 of Nov, 2009 11:16 GMT posts: 493

given point 5 (and my wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind of ugly
and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf" is acceptable as
long as it's used as a name right? Actually, could I make up any word as
long as it fits the requirements of a name?

- Luke Bergen

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > So I was thinking about this earlier. When babies are first learning to
> > talk they don't say "father" as their first word. It's usually some kind
> of
> > "dada" sound. Also, patfu sounds so formal. For when babies are first
> > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's
> > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
> >
> > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is
> > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say
> "patfu"?
> > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to
> have
> > a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what "pop"
> is
> > in english?
> >
>
> While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than
> me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in
> Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
> kids:
> 1) I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively
> late sound to develop. 'pa.u' is more likely. But probably, 'patu'
> would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. (cf. French papa,
> Yiddish tatty, Farsi bapu).
> 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their
> father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be
> able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
> 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu'
> for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
> means 'one of those' ;-) )
> 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I
> wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
> 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but
> it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
> to "Father".
>
> --gejyspa
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by lagejyspa on Mon 23 of Nov, 2009 11:16 GMT posts: 350

Sure. 'pap' and 'pat' are fine. They are names, therefore devoid
of meaning (In a previous thread, I suggested "mamym" for "grandma".)
--gy

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> given point 5 (and my wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind of ugly
> and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf" is acceptable as
> long as it's used as a name right?  Actually, could I make up any word as
> long as it fits the requirements of a name?
>
> - Luke Bergen
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > So I was thinking about this earlier.  When babies are first learning to
>> > talk they don't say "father" as their first word.  It's usually some
>> > kind of
>> > "dada" sound.  Also, patfu sounds so formal.  For when babies are first
>> > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's
>> > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
>> >
>> > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is
>> > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say
>> > "patfu"?
>> > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to
>> > have
>> > a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what
>> > "pop" is
>> > in english?
>> >
>>
>>  While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than
>> me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in
>> Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
>> kids:
>> 1)  I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively
>> late sound to develop.  'pa.u' is more likely.  But probably, 'patu'
>> would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu.  (cf. French papa,
>> Yiddish tatty,  Farsi bapu).
>> 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their
>> father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be
>> able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
>> 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu'
>> for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
>> means 'one of those' ;-) )
>> 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I
>> wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
>> 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but
>> it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
>> to "Father".
>>
>>                --gejyspa
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lagejyspa on Mon 23 of Nov, 2009 11:17 GMT posts: 350

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I was thinking about this earlier.  When babies are first learning to
> talk they don't say "father" as their first word.  It's usually some kind of
> "dada" sound.  Also, patfu sounds so formal.  For when babies are first
> learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's
> paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
>
> Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is
> understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say "patfu"?
> Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to have
> a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what "pop" is
> in english?
>

While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than
me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in
Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
kids:
1) I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively
late sound to develop. 'pa.u' is more likely. But probably, 'patu'
would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. (cf. French papa,
Yiddish tatty, Farsi bapu).
2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their
father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be
able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu'
for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
means 'one of those' ;-) )
4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I
wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but
it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
to "Father".

--gejyspa

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lukebergen on Mon 23 of Nov, 2009 11:17 GMT posts: 493

given point 5 (and my
wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind of ugly
and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf" is acceptable as
long as it's used as a name right? Actually, could I make up any word as
long as it fits the requirements of a name?

- Luke Bergen

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > So I was thinking about this earlier. When babies are first learning to
> > talk they don't say "father" as their first word. It's usually some kind
> of
> > "dada" sound. Also, patfu sounds so formal. For when babies are first
> > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's
> > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
> >
> > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is
> > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say
> "patfu"?
> > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to
> have
> > a child call their parent "la paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what "pop"
> is
> > in english?
> >
>
> While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than
> me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in
> Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
> kids:
> 1) I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively
> late sound to develop. 'pa.u' is more likely. But probably, 'patu'
> would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu. (cf. French papa,
> Yiddish tatty, Farsi bapu).
> 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their
> father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be
> able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
> 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu'
> for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
> means 'one of those' ;-) )
> 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I
> wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
> 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but
> it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
> to "Father".
>
> --gejyspa
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by lagejyspa on Mon 23 of Nov, 2009 11:17 GMT posts: 350

Sure. 'pap' and 'pat' are fine. They are names, therefore devoid
of meaning (In a previous thread, I suggested "mamym" for "grandma".)
--gy

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> given point 5 (and my wife explicitly saying that "patfu sounds kind of ugly
> and formal" which I agree with) you do say that using "paf" is acceptable as
> long as it's used as a name right?  Actually, could I make up any word as
> long as it fits the requirements of a name?
>
> - Luke Bergen
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > So I was thinking about this earlier.  When babies are first learning to
>> > talk they don't say "father" as their first word.  It's usually some
>> > kind of
>> > "dada" sound.  Also, patfu sounds so formal.  For when babies are first
>> > learning to talk how acceptable would things like referring to one's
>> > paternal gardian as "pa'u" be?
>> >
>> > Would this be the kind of thing where getting excited over "pa'u" is
>> > understandable but the next step would be to encourage them to say
>> > "patfu"?
>> > Also, "patfu" sounds kind of ugly, would it be common/understandable to
>> > have
>> > a child call their parent "la
paf" or "la pa'us" as similar to what
>> > "pop" is
>> > in english?
>> >
>>
>>  While my wife is much for the language acquisition specialist than
>> me (she has a bachelor's in Speech Language Pathology, and a Master in
>> Special Education), I can say from the perspective of a father of five
>> kids:
>> 1)  I don't think a kid is likely to say "pa'u". /h/ is a relatively
>> late sound to develop.  'pa.u' is more likely.  But probably, 'patu'
>> would be the closest a baby is gonna get to patfu.  (cf. French papa,
>> Yiddish tatty,  Farsi bapu).
>> 2) 'paf' would be fine for an older kid/grownup to refer to their
>> father, exactly equivalent to "Dad" or "Pop", but a baby wouldn't be
>> able to manage the final /f/ so well, either.
>> 3) Any lojbanic father would be thrilled to hear their kid say 'patu'
>> for the first time!! (Later, we can correct the kid that it really
>> means 'one of those' ;-) )
>> 4) "pa'u" of course already has a meaning, "having part___", so I
>> wouldn't encourage my kid to make that sound.
>> 5) "patfu" being ugly is strictly a judgement call on your part, but
>> it certainly would sound very formal as a term of address, equivalent
>> to "Father".
>>
>>                --gejyspa
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.