Lojban In General

Posted by adamgarrigus on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 11:58 GMT posts: 92

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:

>
> I would appreciate it if our US lojbanists help
> sort this out.
>
> For Los Angeles, I've seen
> {losandjylys} and {
> losandjeles}. Yet any time I hear Americans
> say it, the s is hard and
> the last syllable is drawn out as in eee.
>
> So it seems to me that the closest to local pronunciation
> would be {lozandjylis}.
>
> Comments please.

I won't speak to local pronunciation as there are Californians on the list,
but {ndj} is disallowed. I've used {los. anydjylys.}

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

Posted by lukebergen on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 493

The way I've always heard it pronounced I would think {los anjylys} to be a
good approximation of how it's pronounced. It is a shame that ndj is not
allowed.

- Luke Bergen

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:22 AM, komfo,amonan <komfoamonan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:29 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I would appreciate it if our US lojbanists help
>> sort this out.
>>
>> For Los Angeles, I've seen
>> {losandjylys} and {
>> losandjeles}. Yet any time I hear Americans
>> say it, the s is hard and
>> the last syllable is drawn out as in eee.
>>
>> So it seems to me that the closest to local pronunciation
>> would be {lozandjylis}.
>>
>> Comments please.
>
>
> I won't speak to local pronunciation as there are Californians on the list,
> but {ndj} is disallowed. I've used {los. anydjylys.}
>
> mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan
>
>

Posted by Minimiscience on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 3588

de'i li 07 pi'e 07 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. komfo,amonan .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> I won't speak to local pronunciation as there are Californians on the list,
> but {ndj} is disallowed.
.skamyxatra

Technically, the restriction against "ndj" and the other consonant triples is
only given for {lujvo}. Whether it applies to {fu'ivla} and/or {cmene} is not
addressed by the CLL, and I don't think the BPFK has made any decisions about
it yet.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

--
lu nibli lo jitfa va'o lonu lu'e vo'a lidne vo'a li'u nibli lo jitfa va'o lonu
lu'e vo'a lidne vo'a

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lindarthebard on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 66

Having lived there, I can attest to the native pronunciation.
Cos I don't know IPA, the "IH" sound (as in FISH) will be a capital Q (cos I looks like L) and "A" as in "hat" will be a capital A.
{lasAndjylQs}
So... in Lojban the closes approximation is {elei} or {lasandjeles} I think....

--- Original Message --
From: A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:29:00 AM
Subject: lojban cmene for Los Angeles

I would appreciate it if our US lojbanists help
sort this out.

For Los Angeles, I've seen
{losandjylys} and {
losandjeles}. Yet any time I hear Americans
say it, the s is hard and
the last syllable is drawn out as in eee.

So it seems to me that the closest to local pronunciation
would be {lozandjylis}.

Comments please.

mu'o mi'e andrus

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by stevo on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 381

In a message dated 7/7/2009 10:31:36 Eastern Daylight Time,
totus@rogers.com writes:

> For Los Angeles, I've seen
> {losandjylys} and {
> losandjeles}. Yet any time I hear Americans
> say it, the s is hard and
> the last syllable is drawn out as in eee.
>
> So it seems to me that the closest to local pronunciation
> would be {lozandjylis}.
>

That sounds weird to me.
I say {lasAndjylys} (with short 'a' as in "cat" in the stressed syllable).

I've heard "Los Angeleeze", but I wouldn't say it.
I'm from the Midwest, so not a native of southern California.

stevo

For what it's worth, I'm a northern California native, and I pronounce it
(and have always heard it pronounced) as "loss ANN-juh-liss". I guess I'd
probably lojbanize it as {las,andjylys.}.

Since the origin of the name is Spanish, however, maybe it would be a better
idea (more "logical"?) to aim for the original pronunciation, which is
something like {los,ANxeles.}.

Posted by stevo on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 381

In a message dated 7/7/2009 18:11:25 Eastern Daylight Time,
MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com writes:

> I say {lasAndjylys} (with short 'a' as in "cat" in the stressed
> syllable).
>

And of course the initial "la" is disallowed in cmene (unless you subscribe
to the dot side, I think).

stevo

Posted by PierreAbbat on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 324

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:53:50 Jonathan wrote:
> For what it's worth, I'm a northern California native, and I pronounce it
> (and have always heard it pronounced) as "loss ANN-juh-liss". I guess I'd
> probably lojbanize it as {las,andjylys.}.
>
> Since the origin of the name is Spanish, however, maybe it would be a
> better idea (more "logical"?) to aim for the original pronunciation, which
> is something like {los,ANxeles.}.

I say {losANdjylys} in English and {losANxeles} in Spanish, with ash in the
English stressed syllable.

"ndj" is not allowed in Lojban. That's another reason to use the Spanish
pronunciation.

Pierre

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by stevo on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 381

In a message dated 7/7/2009 22:56:46 Eastern Daylight Time,
phma@phma.optus.nu writes:

> I say {losANdjylys} in English and {losANxeles} in Spanish, with ash in
> the
> English stressed syllable.
>
> "ndj" is not allowed in Lojban. That's another reason to use the Spanish
> pronunciation.
>

That's hardly a reason at all. Simply use "nj" instead of "ndj". It'll
sound practically the same.

stevo

Posted by totus on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 65

Thanks, everybody.
 
My take on this, having read your comments, is that
{lasANdjylys} would be it....but for the rules!
 
With both {la} and {ndj} disallowed, the closest we can
get there would seem to be {losANjylys}.  It seems
close enough, and I don't think we should be going
to the original Spanish.  Surely 'local' means 'local' now.
 
 
But all this brings up, yet again, the question of what is
meant by 'local' pronunciation.
 
If you overdo the 'local', you end up with problems.  For example,
what is local in London?  East End Cockney sounds nothing like
middle-class Mayfair.  How about Zurich?  There are several
dialects of Schweizerteutsch in that city alone.  How should
Shanghai be pronounced? As in the local regional language Wu,
or in the urban Shanghainese dialect of Wu (spoken by only a
minority of the city's inhabitants - just like Cockney).
 
For me 'local' means the official or 'average' pronunciation
in the relevent country.  In the case of Shanghai, that would be
based on the official Mandarin.  In Canada, Montreal would have two
acceptable pronunciations: myntre,IOL (from English) and more,AL
(from French).  India presents an interesting case, as the official
pronunciations are the ones based on the official  languages
of the states in which the cities are located.  So we have
Mumbai (in Marathi), Kolkata (in Bengali) and Dilli (in Hindi).
 
mu'o mi'e andrus

Posted by lindarthebard on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 66

Okay, but despite that fact, and everybody throwing in their two cents, we should take the local pronunciation.
I've heard every bloody UK citizen call it either {los.Angelis} or {los.Anjelis}, so we can't take it from how -everybody- pronounces it.
The midwesterner that posted eir opinion on the pronunciation didn't even hit the mark close on the local pronunciation.
The NorCal person got it probably the closest. It is, in SoCal dialect (local to the actual city of Los Angeles), it is said lɒ'sændʒəlɪs.
I double-checked to make sure I was using the right IPA, and several sources agree with me in regards to the proper pronunciation.
So, I guess either {las.anjylys}, {los.anxeles}, or {elei}.

Also, as a side note, I speak RP English, and I just have to say something to the brito/non-Americans out there, from one to another.
For the love of GOD, stop saying {los.anjyliiiiiiiiis} because it's bloody well annoying and offencive that you would so butcher the name of something like that well after you've been corrected (read: {yREgyNO} not {OriGAno} for oregano, comPUTER and not COMputer for some of the brito out there).

As a side note for the Americans, I've lived here for close to half of my life, and in various parts.
It's {cejul} not {skedjuyl} for schedule, and it's {tiusdi} or {tiusdei} (depending on your level of posh) and not {tuzdei}.

One more reason to hate the language.

IMHO just say {los.anxeles} and don't be a tit, because everybody will know what it means, from the scholarliest scholar to the dumbest nitwit.

Cheers! <3<3<3

>It's {cejul} not {skedjuyl} for schedule, and it's {tiusdi} or {tiusdei}
(depending on your level of posh) and not {tuzdei}.

Not in America, it ain't. I'm sorry you think (for whatever reason) that my
dialect should be more like RP, but *please* don't tell me how to speak my
own native language. That's just unbelievably condescending.

Posted by adamgarrigus on Sat 28 of Nov, 2009 12:06 GMT posts: 92

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Jonathan <jon214@gmail.com> wrote:

> >It's {cejul} not {skedjuyl} for schedule, and it's {tiusdi} or {tiusdei}
> (depending on your level of posh) and not {tuzdei}.
>
> Not in America, it ain't. I'm sorry you think (for whatever reason) that my
> dialect should be more like RP, but *please* don't tell me how to speak my
> own native language. That's just unbelievably condescending.

pe'i xagmau fa lo nu ba'e na darlu casnu le glibau bau le glibau ma'i le
lojbo ke mrilu se liste .i ki'e mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan