History: BPFK Section: Distance

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Proposed Definitions

 

ze'a
Duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a certain time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the duration.

mi ba ze'a stali

I'll stay for a while.

mi tigni ze'a lo masti be li mupimu bu'u la kamogauas zei banlyxotli tu'i la kamogauas pe lo pongu'e

I performed for five and a half months at the Kamogawa Grand Hotel in Kamogawa, Japan.

ze'e
Unbounded duration. It indicates that the event lasts for an unlimited time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the unbounded duration.

mi'o se kampu lo steci te jorne poi mi na ka'e ciksi i ju'o mi'o ze'e ba pedysi'u i ju'ocu'i ze'e pu go'i

We share a special bond, one I can't explain. I know we will be friends forever. Or maybe we have been already.

i ze'e lo mokca ko'a simlu lo ka fulta ga'uva lo gutci be li ji'i renono

...and for an instant that lasted forever, he seemed to float about two hundred feet up

ze'i
Short duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a short time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short duration.

ji'asai mi ze'i jinvi lo du'u sa'u mi xruti le solji cedra be lo xagze'a ke rokci zgike

I even thought for a jiffy that I was just returning to the golden era of progressive rock music.

ko'a ba lo nu ze'i lo nanca no'u li 1622 ctuca fi lo saskrfilosofia fi'o ckule la vaisenburg noi ca du la karlsburg tu'i la transilvanias cu vrici litru lifri fau lo nu selfu so'o tutra nobli

After being for a short year (1622) professor of philosophy at the Gymnasium of Weissenburg (now Karlsburg) in Transylvania, he led a wandering life in the service of various territorial nobles.

ze'u
Long duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a long of time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long duration.

ri'a ma lo je'erma'a cu ze'u cando gi'ebabo te jetce

Why do volcanoes sit for a long time and then finally erupt?

ze'u lo cacra la mauglis cu vreta seru'u lo so'o djine ize'abo la kaas noi lo stedu cu cando cpana le loldi cu pensi ro da poi ky viska gi'e djuno co'a lo djedi poi ky cliva lo sovda

For a long hour Mowgli lay back among the coils, while Kaa, his head motionless on the ground, thought of all that he had seen and known since the day he came from the egg.

ve'a
Spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a certain region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the region.

ro mirli ro drata mirli cu frica lo ka se panci i my ba'arpu'i lo tutra be my ta'i lo nu my ve'a cliva lo panci be my

Every deer smells different from every other deer. They mark their territory by leaving their scent throughout a certain area.

mi zifre lo nu curmi lo nu le nanla cu jai fenki ve'a lo tumla kramu be li so'u i go'i secau lo nu xanka lo nu ny klama lo mokau jarbu

I can let the boys go crazy over a few acres of land without wondering which zip code they've wandered off to.

ve'e
Unbounded spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over an unlimited region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the unbounded region.

lo skepre cu jinvi lo du'u lo ratygri poi sarcu lo nu se marji lo selci pilka kei e seni'ibo lo krasi be lo nu jmive cu zasti ve'e lo kensa

Scientists believe the molecules needed to make a cell's membrane, and thus for the origin of life, are all over space

ca lo nu do dei tcidu kei lo tarci cu tolcanci gi'e mrobi'o vau ve'e lo munje i pamei fasnu gi'e pagbu lo bratce pruce poi munje nu fesrefpi'o

As you read this, stars are emerging and dying all over the Universe, individual episodes in an huge process of cosmic recycling.

ve'i
Small spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a small region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the small region.

ta'e lo mabrnmustela cu ve'i po'o kalte ijeve'ibo my ji'a se jersi lo djica

Usually weasels hunt only throughout a small area, and within these boundaries they, too, are avidly pursued.

le sanga pu ca'o plipe ve'i le tsina

The singer was hopping all over the tiny stage.

ve'u
Large spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a large region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the large region.

le skuro be le loldi cu ve'u se ganse

The cracks in the soil were observed over a large zone.

le balmalsi sagbe'e cu gidva fi piso'e le ritli i le voksa be le sanga cu se minra ve'u le malsi

The cathedral choir leads most of the service, and the singers' voices echo throughout the huge sanctuary.

vi'a
Two-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends across a surface. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the surface.

ta'i ma lo resrgeko cu nipsti da ca lo nu muvdu vi'a da

How do gecko lizards unstick themselves as they move across a surface?

vi'e
Four-dimensional spatio-temporal extent. It indicates that the event extends throughout a space-time volume. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the space-time volume.

 
lo cfila cu se jarco vi'e po'o lo nu lo nonkanbo'a cu kucysi'u

The deformation only shows up in the space-time region where solitons interact.

vi'i
One-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends along a line. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the line.

ca lo cerni be lo soldei po'u li 1961 pi'e 8 pi'e 13 lo gunka co'a zbasu lo mitre be li ci galtu ke sligu bitmu vi'i le korbi be le softo pagbu be le tcadu

On Sunday morning, August 13, 1961, workers began building a three-meter-high concrete wall along the border of the Soviet sector of the city.

vi'u
Three-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends throughout a volume. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the volume.

lo risna cu sluji rango fi lo nu pambe lo ciblu vi'u lo xadni

The heart is the muscular organ that pumps blood throughout the body.

za
Time distance. It indicates that the event is separated in time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the time separation distance.

mi puza jonbi'o le vi cecmu gi'e ze'a smaji tcidu gi'eku'i noroi mrilu

I joined this community a while ago and have been lurking for a bit, but never posted.

lo brogu'e pulji cu cusku lo se du'u py cpacu lo datni be lo cumki nungunta pu lo nunspoja za lo cacra

Israeli police said they received intelligence about a possible attack an hour before the explosion.

zi
Short time distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a short time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short time separation distance.

mi do ba kansa zi lo mentu

I'll be with you in just a minute.

ko'a spebi'o ca lo lerci be lo nunji'e gi'ebabo mrobi'o zi lo nanca be li mu fau lo nu cliva lo ko'a speni e ci cmalu panzi

He married late in life and died only five years later, leaving his wife with three small children.

zu
Long time distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a long time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long time separation distance.

puzuvuku ni'a lo blanu tsani mi'o cmila je kelci je senva ze'u lo cacra be li so'i

Long ago and far away beneath the skies of blue, We laughed and played and dreamed away the hours, me and you.

ibabo zu lo jeftu mi cpacu lo skami selmri

A long week later, I received an e-mail.

va
Space distance. It indicates that the event is separated in space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the space separation distance.

le gerku ze'a pu na se viska ca lo nu mi'a tirna lo nu zu'a va bacru

The dogs had been for some time out of sight when we heard a barking at some distance to the left.

lo karce be lo jatna be la xamas cu se darxi fi re bradanti ki lo zdani be jy va lo mitre be li so'o

The Hamas leader's car was hit with two missiles several meters away from his home.

vi
Short space distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a short space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short space separation distance.

le mi lanzu vi sanga ze'u lo so'i rorlei sei ko'a fi mi cusku

"My family have been singing here for generations," he told me.

su'oroiku ma'a ge viska lo nu lindi vi lo minli be li so'u gi ku'i na tirna lo sance be ly

Sometimes we see lightning strike only a few miles away but we don't hear the thunder it causes.

vu
Long space distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a long space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long space separation distance.

do te vecnu da bu'u lo nu da se zbasu ije vu vecnu da bu'u lo nu da kargu

You buy stuff where it's made, and sell it far away where it's expensive.

Formal definitions

 

ze'a fi'o krafamtei
ze'e fi'o cimni krafamtei
ze'i fi'o cmalu krafamtei
ze'u fi'o barda krafamtei
ve'a fi'o selku'e
ve'e fi'o cimni selku'e
ve'i fi'o cmalu selku'e
ve'u fi'o barda selku'e
vi'a fi'o relselcimde selku'e
vi'e fi'o vonselcimde selku'e
vi'i fi'o pavyselcimde selku'e
vi'u fi'o cibyselcimde selku'e
za fi'o temci be lo manri
zi fi'o cmalu temci be lo manri
zu fi'o barda temci be lo manri
va fi'o tersei be lo manri
vi fi'o cmalu tersei be lo manri
vu fi'o barda tersei be lo manri

 

Notes

 

  • The definitions of ZEhA, VEhA and VIhA basically agree with those in CLL and the ma'oste. The only difference is that the keyword "medium" has been removed from the -a forms, so that a basic form is available when the size of the interval is not particularly significant.

 

  • The definitions of ZI and VA agree with the canon in their basic meaning (again with "medium" removed from the -a forms), but differ in the interpretation of the tagged sumti. Neither CLL nor the ma'oste specify the meaning of a tagged sumti with ZI, but the idea is that they work analogously to VA. VA in CLL tags the reference point instead of the distance as proposed here. In the ma'oste, two options are given for VA: they either tag the reference point: "a short/medium/long distance from...", or they tag the actual position of the event, as away from the speaker: "here/there/yonder at...". This last possibility is not mentioned in CLL.

 

  • The rationale for using ZI and VA to tag the distance is that their function is precisely to indicate the measure of separation of the event from the speaker or reference point. There is no other convenient way of specifying the measure of separation, while there are plenty of other ways to indicate the reference point: for example PU, FAhA and KI.

 

Impact

 

  • Ancient usages with the "there at..." meaning are not contemplated. These are wrong both by CLL and by this proposal:

 
http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9104/msg00066.html(external link)

le cribe cu cupra lei kalci va le tricu ciste

All-of-the-at-least-one-thing-I-describe-as a-bear [past]
produced the-mass-of feces there-at the tree-type-of system.

The bear shat in the woods.

http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9608/msg00012.html(external link)

[English (by Guy Lee)]
; you, Tityrus, cool in shade,
Are teaching woods to echo lovely Amaryllis.

[Lojban]
.i do doi tityrus. noi nalkurji
va le ctino cu ctuca lei ricfoi fi lenu sance minra la poi melbi
.amarilis.

[English Don Wiggins]
; you, Titerus, who does not care, there in the shade,
teach the forests the echo of Amarili the Beautiful. [...]

http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/msg00109.html(external link)

From: David Twery

.i mi pu tirna ko'a va le vacri po'e lo nicte ca mi tirna lenu lo mamta cu
selsanga co vrucau seva'u lo verba poi ke'a selraktu je fengu vi leka manku

I heard it in the air of one night when I listened to a mother
singing softly to a child restless and angry in the darkness.

  • The widespread use of vi instead of bu'u as the space equivalent of ca becomes invalidated. There are lots of these, here are just a few examples:

 

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/mildew(external link) {vi lo purdi}, {vi loi cnino stuzi}, {vi le rokci}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/cukta2.html(external link) {vi lo minra}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/moser(external link) {vi le lisri}, {vi le dei jufygri}, {vi lo jibni be lo jufra fanmo}, {vi le ckana}

http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice.html(external link) {vi le selmacygu'e}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja/ckafybarja2(external link) {vi le barja}, {vile ckafybarja}, {vi le tcadu}

tu'a le cukta {vi le tcadu}, {vi le klina}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/luther_king(external link) {vi le xunre cmama'a be la djordjas}, {vi le mu'a .ua la misisipis. jectypau}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/cukta3.html(external link) {vi le ckafybarja}, {vi le purci}

My version of The Book? {vi le loldi}, {vi le cukta fanmo}, {vi le kunti foldi}

le nanmu kujo'u le since {vi lei pagbu be le dinju}, {vi le me la ga'i drurin. zdani}, {vi le srasu}, {vi le midju darno}, {vi le na'e ciblu}, {vi le cukta kumfa}, {vi le dijlu'a}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1(external link) {vi le jupku'a}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/maxwell_tales(external link) {vi le galtu be lo zdani}, {vi le dizlo be le zdani}, {vi le zdani}

http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/drbible/drbible_10.html(external link) {vi le barda cmana}, {vi le mipri pagbu be le cmana}, {vi lo xrulrlili'u}

Old MacDonald {vi le cange}

  • Some uses of vi with the "a short distance from..." meaning:

 

tu'a le cukta {vi le xekri je ctile rirxe}

le nanmu kujo'u le since {vi la nil}

http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1(external link) {vi le ragve kojna}

lapoi pelxu ku'o trajynobli {vi le remoi jubme}

Meeting other lojbanists {vi le se xabju be do}

  • Some uses that become validated

 

http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_9.html(external link) {zi lo mokca}, {zi lo mentu be li ji'ire}, {zi lo mleca be lo temci}, {za lo drata mentu}

Le Petit Prince {za lo nanca be li xa}

Le Petit Prince 2? {vu lo minli be li ki'o}

http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html(external link) {va lo mitre be li su'o}

 


History

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Date User IP Edit Comment Version   Action
Thu 21 of Aug., 2014 10:23 GMT Ilmen 95.210.209.219 Modifying the word links. 31
Current
v  s
Thu 21 of Aug., 2014 10:20 GMT Ilmen 95.210.209.219 Modifying the word links. 30 v  s
Sun 08 of June, 2014 19:23 GMT mukti 216.194.27.154   29 v  s
Fri 30 of May, 2014 09:16 GMT eyeonus 65.129.76.155 Fixed "long of time". 28 v  s
Wed 28 of May, 2014 10:45 GMT pne 194.25.30.13 ; 27 v  s
Wed 28 of May, 2014 09:20 GMT selpa'i 84.175.79.206   26 v  s
Tue 19 of Oct., 2010 01:26 GMT lindarthebard 32.172.136.135   25 v  s
Sat 16 of Oct., 2010 20:30 GMT lindarthebard 166.191.217.61   24 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 08:08 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   23 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:48 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   22 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:48 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   21 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:46 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   20 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:41 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   19 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:36 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   18 v  s
Sat 17 of Apr., 2010 20:04 GMT xorxes 201.253.86.169   17 v  s
Fri 16 of Apr., 2010 00:39 GMT xorxes 201.253.86.169   16 v  s
Wed 12 of Nov., 2008 13:05 GMT xorxes 200.123.104.44 fix typo: zu -> vu 15 v  s
Mon 12 of July, 2004 21:22 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   14 v  s
Sun 11 of July, 2004 01:46 GMT xorxes 200.43.74.32   13 v  s
Sun 11 of July, 2004 01:33 GMT xorxes 200.43.74.32   12 v  s
Tue 29 of June, 2004 23:59 GMT xorxes 200.43.213.86   4 v  s