History: BPFK Section: Distance

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Proposed Definitions

 

ze'a
Duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a certain time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the duration.

mi ba ze'a stali
I'll stay for a while.

mi tigni ze'a lo masti be li mupimu bu'u la kamogauas zei banlyxotli tu'i la kamogauas pe lo pongu'e
I performed for five and a half months at the Kamogawa Grand Hotel in Kamogawa, Japan.

ze'e
Unbounded duration. It indicates that the event lasts for an unlimited time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the unbounded duration.

mi'o se kampu lo steci te jorne poi mi na ka'e ciksi i ju'o mi'o ze'e ba pedysi'u i ju'ocu'i ze'e pu go'i
We share a special bond, one I can't explain. I know we will be friends forever. Or maybe we have been already.

i ze'e lo mokca ko'a simlu lo ka fulta ga'uva lo gutci be li ji'i renono
...and for an instant that lasted forever, he seemed to float about two hundred feet up

ze'i
Short duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a short time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short duration.

ji'asai mi ze'i jinvi lo du'u sa'u mi xruti le solji cedra be lo xagze'a ke rokci zgike
I even thought for a jiffy that I was just returning to the golden era of progressive rock music.

ko'a ba lo nu ze'i lo nanca no'u li 1622 ctuca fi lo saskrfilosofia fi'o ckule la vaisenburg noi ca du la karlsburg tu'i la transilvanias cu vrici litru lifri fau lo nu selfu so'o tutra nobli
After being for a short year (1622) professor of philosophy at the Gymnasium of Weissenburg (now Karlsburg) in Transylvania, he led a wandering life in the service of various territorial nobles.

ze'u
Long duration. It indicates that the event lasts for a long of time. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long duration.

 

ve'a
Spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a certain region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the region.

 

ve'e
Unbounded spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over an unlimited region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the unbounded region.

 

ve'i
Small spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a small region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the small region.

 

ve'u
Large spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends over a large region. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the large region.

 

vi'a
Two-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends across a surface. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the surface.

 

vi'e
Four-dimensional spatio-temporal extent. It indicates that the event extends throughout a space-time volume. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the space-time volume.

 

vi'i
One-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends along a line. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the line.

 

vi'u
Three-dimensional spatial extent. It indicates that the event extends throughout a volume. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the volume.

 

za
Time distance. It indicates that the event is separated in time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the separation distance.

 

zi
Short time distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a short time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short separation distance.

 

zu
Long time distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a long time from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long separation distance.

 

va
Space distance. It indicates that the event is separated in space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the separation distance.

 

vi
Short space distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a short space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the short separation distance.

 

vu
Long space distance. It indicates that the event is separated by a long space from the speaker or reference point. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the long separation distance.

 

Formal definitions

 

ze'a fi'o krafamtei
ze'e fi'o cimni krafamtei
ze'i fi'o cmalu krafamtei
ze'u fi'o barda krafamtei
ve'a fi'o selku'e
ve'e fi'o cimni selku'e
ve'i fi'o cmalu selku'e
ve'u fi'o barda selku'e
vi'a fi'o relselcimde selku'e
vi'e fi'o vonselcimde selku'e
vi'i fi'o pavyselcimde selku'e
vi'u fi'o cibyselcimde selku'e
za fi'o temci be lo manri
zi fi'o cmalu temci be lo manri
zu fi'o barda temci be lo manri
va fi'o tersei be lo manri
vi fi'o cmalu tersei be lo manri
vu fi'o barda tersei be lo manri

 

Notes

 

  • The definitions of ZEhA, VEhA and VIhA basically agree with those in CLL and the ma'oste. The only difference is that the keyword "medium" has been removed from the -a forms, so that a basic form is available when the size of the interval is not particularly significant.

 

  • The definitions of ZI and VA agree with the canon in their basic meaning (again with "medium" removed from the -a forms), but differ in the interpretation of the tagged sumti. Neither CLL nor the ma'oste specify the meaning of a tagged sumti with ZI, but the idea is that they work analogously to VA. VA in CLL tags the reference point instead of the distance as proposed here. In the ma'oste, two options are given for VA: they either tag the reference point: "a short/medium/long distance from...", or they tag the actual position of the event, as away from the speaker: "here/there/yonder at...". This last possibility is not mentioned in CLL.

 

  • The rationale for using ZI and VA to tag the distance is that their function is precisely to indicate the measure of separation of the event from the speaker or reference point. There is no other convenient way of specifying the measure of separation, while there are plenty of other ways to indicate the reference point: for example PU, FAhA and KI.

 

Impact

 

  • Ancient usages with the "there at..." meaning are not contemplated. These are wrong both by CLL and by this proposal:

 
http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9104/msg00066.html(external link)
le cribe cu cupra lei kalci va le tricu ciste
All-of-the-at-least-one-thing-I-describe-as a-bear [past]
produced the-mass-of feces there-at the tree-type-of system.
The bear shat in the woods.

http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9608/msg00012.html(external link)
[English (by Guy Lee)]
; you, Tityrus, cool in shade,
Are teaching woods to echo lovely Amaryllis.
[Lojban]
.i do doi tityrus. noi nalkurji
va le ctino cu ctuca lei ricfoi fi lenu sance minra la poi melbi
.amarilis.
[English Don Wiggins]
; you, Titerus, who does not care, there in the shade,
teach the forests the echo of Amarili the Beautiful. [...]

http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/msg00109.html(external link)
From: David Twery
.i mi pu tirna ko'a va le vacri po'e lo nicte ca mi tirna lenu lo mamta cu
selsanga co vrucau seva'u lo verba poi ke'a selraktu je fengu vi leka manku
I heard it in the air of one night when I listened to a mother
singing softly to a child restless and angry in the darkness.

  • The widespread use of vi instead of bu'u as the space equivalent of ca becomes invalidated. There are lots of these, here are just a few examples:

 
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/mildew(external link) {vi lo purdi}, {vi loi cnino stuzi}, {vi le rokci}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/cukta2.html(external link) {vi lo minra}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/moser(external link) {vi le lisri}, {vi le dei jufygri}, {vi lo jibni be lo jufra fanmo}, {vi le ckana}
http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice.html(external link) {vi le selmacygu'e}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja/ckafybarja2(external link) {vi le barja}, {vile ckafybarja}, {vi le tcadu}
tu'a le cukta {vi le tcadu}, {vi le klina}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/luther_king(external link) {vi le xunre cmama'a be la djordjas}, {vi le mu'a .ua la misisipis. jectypau}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/cukta3.html(external link) {vi le ckafybarja}, {vi le purci}
My version of The Book? {vi le loldi}, {vi le cukta fanmo}, {vi le kunti foldi}
le nanmu kujo'u le since {vi lei pagbu be le dinju}, {vi le me la ga'i drurin. zdani}, {vi le srasu}, {vi le midju darno}, {vi le na'e ciblu}, {vi le cukta kumfa}, {vi le dijlu'a}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1(external link) {vi le jupku'a}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/maxwell_tales(external link) {vi le galtu be lo zdani}, {vi le dizlo be le zdani}, {vi le zdani}
http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/drbible/drbible_10.html(external link) {vi le barda cmana}, {vi le mipri pagbu be le cmana}, {vi lo xrulrlili'u}
Old MacDonald {vi le cange}

  • Some uses of vi with the "a short distance from..." meaning:

 
tu'a le cukta {vi le xekri je ctile rirxe}
le nanmu kujo'u le since {vi la nil}
http://www.lojban.org/files/texts/ckafybarja1(external link) {vi le ragve kojna}
lapoi pelxu ku'o trajynobli {vi le remoi jubme}
Meeting other lojbanists {vi le se xabju be do}

  • Some uses that become validated

 
http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_9.html(external link) {zi lo mokca}, {zi lo mentu be li ji'ire}, {zi lo mleca be lo temci}, {za lo drata mentu}
Le Petit Prince {za lo nanca be li xa}
Le Petit Prince 2? {vu lo minli be li ki'o}
http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html {va lo mitre be li su'o}

 


History

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Date User IP Edit Comment Version   Action
Thu 21 of Aug., 2014 10:23 GMT Ilmen 95.210.209.219 Modifying the word links. 31
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v  s
Thu 21 of Aug., 2014 10:20 GMT Ilmen 95.210.209.219 Modifying the word links. 30 v  s
Sun 08 of June, 2014 19:23 GMT mukti 216.194.27.154   29 v  s
Fri 30 of May, 2014 09:16 GMT eyeonus 65.129.76.155 Fixed "long of time". 28 v  s
Wed 28 of May, 2014 10:45 GMT pne 194.25.30.13 ; 27 v  s
Wed 28 of May, 2014 09:20 GMT selpa'i 84.175.79.206   26 v  s
Tue 19 of Oct., 2010 01:26 GMT lindarthebard 32.172.136.135   25 v  s
Sat 16 of Oct., 2010 20:30 GMT lindarthebard 166.191.217.61   24 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 08:08 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   23 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:48 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   22 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:48 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   21 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:46 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   20 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:41 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   19 v  s
Tue 07 of Sep., 2010 05:36 GMT eyeonus 96.18.103.113   18 v  s
Sat 17 of Apr., 2010 20:04 GMT xorxes 201.253.86.169   17 v  s
Fri 16 of Apr., 2010 00:39 GMT xorxes 201.253.86.169   16 v  s
Wed 12 of Nov., 2008 13:05 GMT xorxes 200.123.104.44 fix typo: zu -> vu 15 v  s
Mon 12 of July, 2004 21:22 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   14 v  s
Sun 11 of July, 2004 01:46 GMT xorxes 200.43.74.32   13 v  s
Sun 11 of July, 2004 01:33 GMT xorxes 200.43.74.32   12 v  s
Tue 29 of June, 2004 23:59 GMT xorxes 200.43.213.86   4 v  s