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Wiki page BPFK Section: Subordinators changed


posts: 1912

 

> !! Proposed Definition of noi
....
> noi
> immediately follows a sumti.

With a simple sumti like ko'a, yes. For a sumti like {le broda ku} there
are three points where it can be atatched: between {le} and {broda},
between {broda} and {ku}, or after {ku}. The meanings can be different
in some cases.

In other words, the noi bridi is true about the
> sumti noi is attached to, but is not enough to pick out only the things
> the speaker has in mind among all the possible things that the sumti noi
> is attached to could refer to.

As I said, I don't think this is necessarily true. The info in
the bridi may very well be enough to pick those things.

The
> noi clause should be considerd, for scoping purposes, as occuring in its

typo "considered"

> la fengu lo smacu noi fy ke'a cpacu cu penmi le zdani
> Fury met a mouse, F (Fury) had acquired it (the mouse), in the house.
> Had to re-order the translation a bit to make the English work; in the Lojban
> the "met" part comes after the comma-delimited clause.

"had acquired" is wrong actually, because the noi clause is not meant
to be in the past of the main clause. Probably the mouse was caught
right after they met. In fact the "tail" starts like this:
"Fury said to a mouse, That he met in the house,", but I had to
add {cpacu} to rhyme with {smacu}.

> ti'e ko'a ne li 2.6 cu mutce sutra
> ''By the way it, which has something to do with the number 2.6, is very
> fast.''

{ti'e} is "they say", not "by the way", which is {ta'o}.

> xu naku me le cnano pe le tai tcima ne vi do
> ''Is it not the case that those among the norm which is associated with the
> form of the weather, which is near you?''
> Isn't it true that the weather near you is normal?

Does it really say that?

> ;pe (GOI):Restrictive phrase. pe is one of Lojban's non-restrictive
> relative phrase markers.

non-restrictive -> restrictive

> that it is followed by another sumti. The meaning of no'u is that the
> attached sumti is absolutely identical to the first sumti, which is what the
> "appositive" part means.

Why not just say that they have the same referents? The two sumti
(i.e. the words) are normally not identical, since {ko'a no'u ko'a}
is sort of redundant.

In other
> words, the no'u sumti is associated with the sumti no'u is attached
> to, but is not enough to pick out only the things the speaker has in mind
> among all the possible things that the sumti no'u is attached to could
> refer to.

This does not make much sense, since both sumti pick out exactly the same
things.

 
> mi ba stidi so'u cnino gismu no'u zo nagra e zo narga e zo ranga e zo ragna
> I will suggest several new gismu: nagra, narga, ranga, and ragna.

so'u = a few

> ;po'u (GOI):Restrictive identity. po'u is Lojban's non-restrictive

non-restrictive -> restrictive

> that it is followed by another sumti. The meaning of po'u is that the
> attached sumti is absolutely identical to the first sumti,

Again, the referents are the same, not the word. But this is not true
in the case of po'u: the second sumti selects some of the referents
of the first, so the first sumti may have some referents that the
second doesn't have.

> ;zi'e (ZIhE):Relative clause/phrase joiner. Normally, a relative clause
> or phrase sumti binds to the last sumti to its immediate left, which means
> that it is impossible to apply more than one relative marker to the same
> sumti.

For some sumti, you can apply three relative clauses without using zi'e.

Using zi'e to mix poi and noi clauses (or pe and ne, and
> so on) is, for very subtle reasons, not well defined.

Shouldn't we define it?

> ;ku'o (KUhO):End relative clause. ku'o is an elidable terminator
> that indicates the end of NOI relative clauses. It can always be replaced by
> some other combination of terminators (ku, vau, and kei in
> particular are often relevant), but its use is preferred in complex clauses,
> where it can often replace several other terminators.

Always?

What do you replace it with in {da poi ge broda gi brode ku'o de}?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

 



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