WikiDiscuss

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> The CLL seems to say that the cases where position matters are only
> relevant to description sumti, and that those cases, while requiring
> quantification, are a seperate issue from those issues surrounding
> quantification of simple sumti.

If CLL says that, then I believe CLL is mistaken. I'll take
a closer look at what it says tonight.

> > Simple sumti present two cases:
> >
> > S1 {ko'a noi broda}
> > S2 {PA ko'a noi broda}
>
> I don't understand what the difference between those two things is, and
> I don't see anything in the CLL that indicates that there is a
> difference. Chatper and verse, please.

{ko'a noi broda} is just what it looks like, noi applies to
all referents of ko'a.

{PA ko'a noi broda} = {PA da poi me ko'a zi'e noi broda}
noi applies to a restriction of the referents of ko'a.

> > Description sumti present seven cases:
> >
> > D1 {le brode noi broda}
> > D2 {le brode ku noi broda}
> > D3 {le noi broda ku'o brode}
> > D4 {PA le brode noi broda}
> > D5 {PA le brode ku noi broda}
> > D6 {PA le noi broda ku'o brode}
> > D7 {PA brode ku noi broda}
> >
> > D1, D2, D3, D4 and D6 behave like S1
> > D5 and D7 behave like S2
>
> All of the exmples in the CLL that talk about the positional variants
> (this would be in section 6 of chapter 8) use both inner *and* outer
> quantifiers, and make it clear that only when you have both does it
> really matter.

D1 {le brode noi broda}
D2 {le brode ku noi broda}
D3 {le noi broda ku'o brode}

D1, D2 and D3 are all equivalent, with or without inner
quantifiers. In all cases, the noi claus applies to the referents
of {le broda} without any restrictions. If you see a difference,
please point it out.

D4 {PA le brode noi broda}
D6 {PA le noi broda ku'o brode}

These are both {PA da poi me le brode noi broda}
i.e. the noi clause applies to the referents of le brode,
again without any restrictions, before the quantifier acts.

Finally:

D5 {PA le brode ku noi broda}
D7 {PA brode ku noi broda}

These are:

D5: PA da poi me le brode zi'e noi broda
D6: PA da poi brode zi'e noi broda

i.e. the noi clause acts after the restriction introduced
by the quantifier, just as in the {PA ko'a noi broda} case.

I don't believe CLL is in disagreement with any of that, even
though it doesn't explain it like that. In any case, I will
check tonight.

If CLL is in disagreement, then how does CLL deal with each case?

>
> BTW, making a mild change to poi; let me know if there's a problem.
>
> poi + PA (but not ro or no) | PA broda poi brode cu brodi | PA da broda .i je
> da ge brode gi brodi

(I don't think that's right. More later.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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