WikiDiscuss

John E Clifford wrote:

>But asking for a doctor is just the sort of opaque reference where — as you say — the real existence is irrelevant. Reporting what a doctor did when there are no doctors is another matter and one where existence is relevant.
>
>

It is interesting that existence has historically plagued lo, when we
see it is really more of a factor for le.

>
>As for {mi djica lo ractu}, I can think of several ways whereby this would be a meaningful way to say I want a rabbit. Unfortunately, none of them seem to be the way that {lo} is presently (incoherently) explained.
>

Perhaps then you should try working backwards from the premise: the
proposed lo is intended to work in that sentence as "a rabbit".

> And, of course, almost all of them leave problems problems in other places (contrasts with {le} in some contexts, permissible external references, and the like) which are avoided by the old Lojban locution.
>

Can you offer concrete examples of these problems?

> Can you — xorxes having so far not — provide a clear case of properly used old {lo} which causes a problem which new {lo} solves?
>
>

An end to erroneous idea that lo provides an existence claim and a
secret "there is a" phrase, and the ability to use lo mikce for "any
doctor" without cmavo torture and a fortnight of heated discussion each
time. Paraphrasing Robin: any language in which you cannot ask for a
doctor is a toy!

Once again, and if you have concrete counterexample use cases, I'd be
interested to see them:

>>There are only 2 actual use cases we must cover.
>>
>>1. I want a rabbit, any rabbit, it doesn't matter which one. (selkaisanji;
>>referring to some real objects; the speaker has revealed all of his
>>criteria; uses lo)
>>
>>2. I want the rabbit, a certain rabbit, not any other. (kairsanji;
>>referring to some real objects, the speaker has not revealed all
>>criteria but retains some unspoken — he'll let you know if you bring
>>the wrong rabbit; uses le)
>>
>>

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