Lojban In General

It's late for me, I'm tired, and I'm still jet-lagged. Perhaps
that accounts for a lot of this, but I really don't seem to be
able to make sense of much of what you're saying. I'll reply,
but I'm then going to leave this and come back later when I've
more time and less fatigue.

>>>> Most would accept that words in one's native language often
>>>> carry additional "baggage" beyond the stated definitions.
>>>
>>> Well, I would accept that the dictionary definitions are
>>> completely inadequate to describe a word's usage.
>>
>> I didn't say dictionary, but you're right. Words are notoriously
>> difficult to explain/define/delimit.
>
> You can put a definition in something other than a "dictionary"
> but that doesn't change it's basic nature.

I've lost your point. Yes, you can put a definition in something
other than a "dictionary". I simply pointed out that I didn't
mention dictionaries, you did.

>>>> The thesis to which I referred found that there was no real
>>>> measurable shift in personality for compound bilinguals, but
>>>> a clear shift for coordinate bilinguals, which I think is
>>>> what I would have predicted if the SWH is true.
>>>
>>> Since it seems to me that coodinate bilinguals gain their
>>> ability through immersion, which also almost always includes
>>> cultural immersion, that comes as no surprise, and doesn't
>>> require SWH to explain it.
>>
>> Forgive me if I misunderstand you, but you appear to be interpreting
>> as constant and unvarying fact something that is simply a correlation.
>> Some coordinates gain their ability through what Krashen calls
>> "learning", and some compounds gain their second language through
>> acquisition.
>
> Well, I disagree with that. As far as I can tell all coordinates
> get their ability through acquisition, sometimes in conjunction
> with varying degrees of learning. A coodinate bilingual who got
> their ability solely through learning is probably non-existent,
> certainly extremely rare. I'd have to reread Krashen but I believe
> the experimental evidence supports this. As far as compounds and
> acquisition, there is also a complicating factor of psychological
> motivation for learning the language, which seems to have a very
> significant effect on what kind of language input gets accepted by
> the student for the purpose of acquisition.

Well, as I said, I'm not an expert. The thesis I read seems to
suggest pretty clearly that there are coordinates who got their
ability through what Krashen calls learning. I won't argue with
evidence. I have none to present, and to some extent don't really
care. I'm merely passing on what I found. If you have evidence
that no coordinates ever gain their ability through what Krashen
calls learning, then I find that interesting.

>> Further, I didn't say that these things require SWH to
>> explain them, I meant that I believe a form of SWH to be
>> true (although possibly not the form S or W would originally
>> have expounded) and that the findings I have to hand are
>> what I would've predicted.
>
> But if the evidence can be explained completely adequately
> without any recourse to SWH then by Occam's razor we would
> tend to discount SWH, until we get some other data that can't
> be explained in another way.

Just because it isn't required by the current evidence does not
suggest it isn't true. I believe this to be a common misuse of
Occam's razor. That's a philosophical point, though, almost an
article of faith, rather than science. The formal evidence I've
seen is consistent with SWH, and my personal experience in these
things persuades me to believe a form of the SWH, and I haven't
seen any convincing evidence contradicting it, so I will continue
for now to make predictions with it. So far my predictions have
proven to be correct.

All informal, of course. This isn't my field. However, I'm off
to bed to see what the morning brings when my brain is clearer.

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