Minutes of the 1994 Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

The sixth Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was called to order on July 17, 1994 at 3:35 PM EDT.

Non-members in attendance at the annual meeting were:

  • Keith Lynch
  • Robyn Rissell
  • Paul Francis O'Sullivan

Roll call was taken of the members.

Members attending (9) were:

  • Athelstan
  • John Cowan
  • John Hodges
  • Nora LeChevalier
  • Robert (Bob) LeChevalier
  • Jorge Llambias
  • Sylvia Rutiser
  • David Twery
  • Tommy Whitlock

Members "present" (4) by proxy:

  • John Clifford proxy to Nora LeChevalier

(John Clifford is the new legal name; it was John Parks-Clifford)

  • Nick Nicholas proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • Veijo Vilva proxy to Tommy Whitlock
  • David Young proxy to Tommy Whitlock

Members not in attendance (4) were:

  • Colin Fine
  • Guy Garnett
  • Karen Stein *
  • Art Wieners

(* = late arrival; not present at roll call)

  • MOVED: To waive notice of meeting in favor of quorum. - PASSED. Notice of meeting by Secretary/Treasurer had not been given in advance of meeting date (per Article 3, Section 4 of the Bylaws). However, a quorum is present; so, by Article 3, Section 6 of the Bylaws, a meeting may be held.

Reading of the Minutes:

Minutes of last meeting were read.

Report of officers - President:

Business matters: Minimum amount of time spent on business end (rest of effort to dictionary). Some long outstanding orders were discovered and sent; anyone waiting over 2 months was given extra material valued at 10% of the order per month (cost $200, but current inventory materials used and increase in postage was minimal).


  • Place structure draft was completed last December and is stable (only 1 change proposed since December).
  • Cmavo list has about 3 open proposals left. Grammar has 2 very minor proposals outstanding.
  • Nick's lujvo paper written.
  • Nick's lujvo list received; John Cowan to solve formatting/expansion of "codes".
  • 2 loose ends: selma'o catalog, and terminal index at end of machine grammar.
  • Steps left: editing, formatting.
  • Estimates: 3000 lujvo, 1400 gismu, 800 cmavo and compounds. Automated processing to extract English order entries gives: 20,000 for lujvo, 10,000 for gismu, 5,000 for cmavo; then manual elimination of garbage entries must be done. Expected to be done September (probably this year)

Computer Net: Veijo put information on LLG on the World Wide Web ("WWW") with hypertext processing. As a result people can run across us in many places on the computer nets. Since June 1st, 1100 different machines accessed data on lojban, with 1/3 to 1/2 of them getting multiple documents. (A proposal to officially commend Veijo was ruled not in order yet - but we never managed to get back to it for a vote).

Papers, Draft Textbook: John Cowan rewrote, updated, reorganized the draft textbook and put it available on the FTP site. Thirteen of sixteen papers written; Jorge reviewed most of them.

Credit Card: Reverted to the bank; there, we are not charged the $25 fee unless we have activity that month. This is much better.


  • Jeff Prothero's check to us was ruined by a spill; procedures are to be implemented to prevent such occurrences in the future.
  • There are cmavo proposals open regarding properties and relative clauses. The remaining papers are on predicate logic and elidible terms; if anyone wants to write them, feel free.
  • No new major posters on Lojban List.

Large growth in non-U.S. people, including China (Taiwan), and South Africa.


  • Last year: income $7560, expense $6250 (no profit because we were in the hole). We didn't spend much last year.
  • This year so far: income $565, expense $1200.
  • Lawyer all paid off.
  • The only non-paper goods sold was 1 copy of the tape. No computer software.
  • If we don't get enough money from te 1st book, there probably won't be another. Sales to libraries will take marketing effort if we wish to consider it.

Report of officers - Secretary/Treasurer: None.

Report of Committees:

  • Rules of order committee: Recommend Alice Strurgis "Standard Parliamentary Code"; John Cowan will see that LLG has a copy.
  • Membership committee: In suspense.

Consideration of new members:

  • MOVED: To welcome Robyn Rissell as a member pending his decision within 3 months. - WITHDRAWN.

Withdrawn after discussion because bylaws allow consideration of his membership outside the meeting, which was recommended.

Election of Board of Directors:

The Ad Hoc nominating committee recommended that all existing members should be retained.

  • MOVED: To adopt the committee's report. - PASSED. Old/Unfinished Business:

Bylaw amendment on rules of order: Last meeting we determined we would vote on a bylaw amendment.

Excerpt from last year: Proposal of bylaw amendment for voting next year: to change "reference to Roberts rules of order" to use different rule set (to be determined).

  • MOVED: To refer the issue to a committee to determine which rule set to be proposed. - PASSED.
  • MOVED: To amend the bylaws (article 3 section 8) by striking out "Roberts' Rules of Order" and substituting "Standard Parliamentary Code 3rd edition" - ADJOURNED UNTIL PROPER NOTICE GIVEN.

The motion was ruled out of order because proper notice (15 days) was not given for this meeting. A new committee (Bob LeChevalier and John Cowan) was formed to make sure proper notice is sent next time.

New Business:

E-mail access: recommendation was made that John Clifford be given E-mail/net access to help support the lojban presence (John Cowan also, if necessary). Estimated $17.50 per month for John Clifford.

  • MOVED: To have LLG pay for E-mail access for John Clifford (and John Cowan if it becomes necessary). - AMENDED.

Discussion determined that we wanted to generalize this so that if it later was deemed necessary to extend such access to others it could be done. Also, criteria for extending such access were set.

  • AMENDMENT: To have LLG pay for E-mail access for John Clifford (and John Cowan if it becomes necessary) and others as necessary subject to the agreed-upon criteria. - PASSED.


  • In order for payment to continue, the contribution of the recipient must be highly time dependent and not feasible through other means.
  • The price is to be limited to the lowest available in the area that meets the needs of the group.
  • The determination to offer this access will be put to the membership except that, if time-dependent, the president or delegate will decide.

The meeting recessed here at 5:40 and re-convened at 6:00.

New Business - continued:

Electronic distribution policy:

Originating motion and various amendments were finally resolved by referring the subject to a committee.

  • MOVED: To amend the electronic distribution policy to put Logflash and other LLG software on the FTP site so people can retrieve it without charge by us.. - SUBJECT REFERRED TO COMMITTEE.

Discussion of shareware vs. freeware. John Cowan thinks it must be freeware due to type of site. He referred to his earlier question about sales of non-paper goods see Report of officers - President, Finances to show we will not really be losing any income.

It was noted that our current version of Logflash is offered with the promise that the 1st 50 to complete and send in results will get a free copy of the dictionary.

Discussion about how to ensure data feedback from Logflash went like this:

  • AMENDMENT: Put in header of Logflash that the 1st 50 people who supply feedback will receive the most recent edition of the dictionary.
  • AMENDMENT: Make "50" a blank to be filled in by vote.
  • VOTE ON NUMBER: proposed numbers were "50", "time-related", "100". "50" - CARRIED.
  • AMENDMENT: Anything to get it to work.
  • Result of all the AMENDMENTS: - WORDING WITHDRAWN.
  • MOVED: To refer to committee - PASSED.

Committee to consist of Karen Stein, Tommy Whitlock, David Twery.


  • MOVED: That the next book to be worked on after the dictionary be the reference grammar. - AMENDED.
  • AMENDMENT: That the next book to be worked on after the dictionary be the reference grammar, and that the one after that be the textbook - PASSED.

(There is also the Introduction to be worked on).

Starting a Lojban news group:

  • MOVED: That serious consideration be given to get a lojban news group on the net - REFERRED TO COMMITTEE.
  • MOVED: That discussion be limited to 5 minutes per person - PASSED.
  • MOVED: To refer to committee - PASSED.

Committee is to be headed by Tommy Whitlock.

Note: Information needed - What will be needed to keep a lojban newsgroup running?

  • MOVED: To adjourn meeting. - PASSED.

The sixth Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was adjourned at approximately 6:55 PM EDT.

I certify that the above motions were presented to all members present for discussion and approval, and that all motions were approved as noted. I further certify that these minutes are an accurate representation of the sixth Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

Nora LeChevalier