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BPFK Section: Attitudinal Modifiers

Proposed Definitions And Examples

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notes

 
Propose to change zo'o scale to (humorously - seriously - solemnly) instead of the current scale of (humorously - dully - seriously). Usage varies a lot, so while nobody knows how it works anyway, let's match it up to a scale that's more like the other scales. - Lindar

  • UI5 should be CAI. UI doesn't modify UI, CAI does. — donri

 

Impact

 

Issues

 
dai is a giant clusterfuck; see notes here and also http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_frm/thread/fba2085b67e7d26a — camgusmis, Nov 2011

1. Is "dai" about emotions you feel out of empathy, or emotions you perceive in others?

1a. If I say ".uidai", am I expressing your (and/or a third party's) happiness and/or observing that you seem to be happy, or am I expressing my own happiness derived from empathetic reactions to your experiences? That is, is it closer to "You seem pleased" or to "I'm happy for you"? Does ".oidai" imply ".oi"?

1b. Relatedly: is ".uedai" remotely close in meaning to "Surprise!" as one would yell when surprising somebody?

1c. How does one say "oooh, that must have hurt" in Lojban? The "oooh" part is clearly some sort of attitudinal-like expression lacking a truth value, like a Lojban UI, but can it be ".oidai" if the speaker does not wish to express that they are experiencing any sort of pain?

Note that all of this has a lot of bearing on the debate about "da'oi," because some da'oi advocates claim it functions semantically as being like "dai" but with a specified referent, but seem to base this description on the presumption that "dai" is more observational than it is expressive of an internal sentiment. It has also been described as a shortcut for "peipaunaidoi" but the two definitions do not seem compatible to me. (Not that this part is directly relevant to the BPFK, since"da'oi" is an unofficial experimental cmavo, but that's part of why this discussion is happening right now.)

Per rlpowell's request, I'll put here that I've used {dai nai} to emphasize that it's my own emotions being mentioned, and {dai cu'i} for "you and me both, brother".

 

  • The examples for {ga'i nai} seem like they were intended for {ga'i}. --iifle?

 

Poll

 


Created by rlpowell. Last Modification: Friday 21 of November, 2014 18:21:43 GMT by iifle.