History: BPFK Section: Irrealis Attitudinals

Preview of version: 26 (current)

First Version Version

Proposed definitions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notes

 

  • The definitions of e'e and e'i are based on a very loose interpretation of some of the keywords, so that they fit the e-series, which in all other cases expresses the speaker's attitude towards the audience's bringing about some situation.

 

  • ai nai changed from rejection / refusal (which is i'a nai) to unintentionality / accidentality / unplannedness.

 

  • e'o nai "make an offer", instead of "negative request"?
    • I have no idea what a "negative request" is. I do, however, see how "offer" is a negative of "request". - .aionys.

 

  • e'u cu'i "abandon suggestion"?

 

  • selpa'i uses {.ei} as "should" and {.e'i} as "must" (as in {.e'i mi'o denpa .i lo sorpeka pu'o zvati}), I (camgusmis) think that's pretty good. The {.e'e} here is obviously out of the question, and I think keeping something like "must" is worth it, too, and closer to what we have.
    • That was long ago, I now prefer {.e'i} as proposed on this page, and I'm a big fan of the proposed {.e'e}.--selpa'i

Section Issues

 

  • Recent discussions have brought up the question of whether a realis/irrealis dichotomy makes sense at all, or whether all bridi are implicitly semi-realis, with some attitudinals leading to stronger implications one way or the other. Public opinion seems to be in favor of removing the split. If so, the definitions may need to be tweaked to make this more clear. If not, then someone needs to speak up in defense of the split.

 

The realis/irrealis distinction(external link) has been rather hotly debated over the years. It is my ( Lindar ) opinion that the reality/irreality of the UI is dependent upon the reality/irreality of the jufra, and can be indicated with da'i/da'inai or some other kind of marker. This way ni'o .a'o mi klama can mean I hope I go. in one instance and I'm going, about which I feel hopeful. for another, rather than being restricted to one meaning.

Poll

 


History

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Date User IP Edit Comment Version   Action
Sat 23 of Aug., 2014 16:31 GMT Ilmen 95.210.209.219 Adding keywords and word links. 26
Current
v  s
Mon 09 of June, 2014 22:43 GMT mukti 216.194.27.154 Reformatted 25 v  s
Mon 09 of June, 2014 22:18 GMT selpa'i 84.175.65.83   24 v  s
Sun 08 of June, 2014 19:24 GMT mukti 216.194.27.154   23 v  s
Thu 08 of Nov., 2012 19:59 GMT admin 173.13.139.233   22 v  s
Thu 02 of Dec., 2010 03:01 GMT lindarthebard 32.172.221.37   21 v  s
Fri 08 of Oct., 2010 23:48 GMT eyeonus 132.178.238.2   20 v  s
Tue 21 of Sep., 2010 20:06 GMT Eimi 128.252.20.177 Added verbiage around realis/irrealis merger 19 v  s
Sat 13 of Aug., 2005 18:19 GMT xorxes 24.232.147.225   18 v  s
Fri 12 of Aug., 2005 18:13 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   17 v  s
Thu 11 of Aug., 2005 19:01 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   16 v  s
Tue 09 of Aug., 2005 14:22 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   15 v  s
Tue 09 of Aug., 2005 14:21 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   14 v  s
Fri 08 of July, 2005 13:16 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   13 v  s
Tue 05 of July, 2005 19:45 GMT rlpowell 64.241.242.18   12 v  s
Mon 04 of July, 2005 19:31 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   11 v  s
Mon 04 of July, 2005 19:24 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   10 v  s
Mon 04 of July, 2005 17:02 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   9 v  s
Mon 04 of July, 2005 16:14 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   8 v  s
Mon 04 of July, 2005 15:32 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   7 v  s
Wed 29 of June, 2005 18:51 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   6 v  s
Sat 25 of June, 2005 00:17 GMT rlpowell 64.81.49.134   5 v  s
Fri 24 of June, 2005 23:57 GMT rlpowell 64.81.49.134   4 v  s
Thu 16 of June, 2005 23:53 GMT rlpowell 64.81.49.134   3 v  s
Wed 25 of Aug., 2004 14:43 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   2 v  s
Wed 18 of Aug., 2004 19:20 GMT xorxes 200.49.74.2   1 v  s