# WikiDiscuss

Forums > WikiDiscuss > Wiki page BPFK Section: Subordinators changed > Wiki page BPFK Section: Subordinators changed

## Wiki page BPFK Section: Subordinators changed

> On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:23:30PM -0700, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > ;noi (NOI):
> snip to important part
> > With description sumti, the relative
> > clause can also be attached inside the sumti, before or after the
> > selbri; in this case the clause applies to all the referents of
> > the sumti, whether there is an outer quantifier or not.

To bring in line with CLL, change to:

With description sumti, the relative
clause can also be attached inside the sumti, before or after the
selbri; when attached before the selbri (right after the gadri) it
is equivalent to a clause attached after the terminated sumti; when
attached after the selbri (before the terminator ku) the clause
applies to all the referents of the sumti, whether there is an outer
quantifier or not.

> > ;poi (NOI):
> snip to important part
> > With description sumti, the relative clause can also be attached
> > inside the sumti, before or after the selbri.
> >
> > (In the case of {poi}, the point of attachment of the clause doesn't
> > make a diference.)
>
> I don't believe this matches, even a little, the contents of
> http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter8.html
> section 6.
>
> In particular, note that *all* of those examples use "poi", not
> "noi", whereas you are saying that with "poi" it makes no
> difference. The CLL flatly contradicts you on this point.

You're right, I missed a distinction that applies with poi.
Change to:

poi (NOI)
Restrictive relative clause marker. It attaches a clause

to the sumti which it follows, putting a restriction on the referents of
that sumti. Inside the clause, ke'a indicates the precise place of
the bridi that the sumti fills. For unquantified sumti, the clause
selects from all the referents of the sumti just those that satisfy it
(when an inner quantifier is present it indicates how many those
referents are). For quantified sumti, the quantification is over just
those referents of the sumti that satisfy the clause. With description
sumti, the relative clause can also be attached inside the sumti, before
or after the selbri; when attached before the selbri (right after the
gadri) it is equivalent to a clause attached after the terminated sumti;
when attached after the selbri (before the terminator ku), the inner
quantifier indicates the number of referents that satisfy the clause
even if there is an outer quantifier. The relative clause is terminated
with ku'o, which is often elidable.

And now here is a trick question:

If I say {ro le mu prenu ku poi ninmu cu klama le zarci}, how
many people do I say went to the market?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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