WikiDiscuss

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:34:22 +0200 (CEST), Arnt Richard Johansen
<arj@nvg.org> wrote:
> >> mi'a ca nelci le cmalu trene semau le sorprekarce
> >> We like the small train, more so than the bus.
>
> Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from actual usage. I'll try to think
> up an example that uses it the right way. (If *you* could give a good
> example, that would be swell.)

That same example with {ne semau} instead of {semau} would be kosher.

If you want one without {ne}, perhaps something like:

mi'a litru semau lo nu stali le zdani
We travel more than we stay at home.

> Is it possible/likely that this vagueness could be intentional on the part
> of those who added {mau}? (I am especially asking for oldbie input on this
> one.)

CLL explicitly eschews it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:

> Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from actual usage. I'll try to think
> up an example that uses it the right way. (If *you* could give a good
> example, that would be swell.)

Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob) vs. Alice likes Bob more
than (Alice likes) Charlie.

> Is it possible/likely that this vagueness could be intentional on the part
> of those who added {mau}? (I am especially asking for oldbie input on this
> one.)

No, we realized there was a problem. It's best resolved by not attempting
to use semau (and friends) to create bridi places directly, but rather to
hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:

la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.

--
Said Agatha Christie / To E. Philips Oppenheim John Cowan
"Who is this Hemingway? / Who is this Proust? jcowan@reutershealth.com
Who is this Vladimir / Whatchamacallum, http://www.reutershealth.com
This neopostrealist / Rabble?" she groused. http://www.ccil.org/cowan
--author unknown to me; any suggestions?

Posted by pycyn on Wed 30 of Mar, 2005 14:34 GMT posts: 2388

> Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
>
> > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> actual usage. I'll try to think
> > up an example that uses it the right way. (If
> *you* could give a good
> > example, that would be swell.)
>
> Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> vs. Alice likes Bob more
> than (Alice likes) Charlie.
>
> > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> could be intentional on the part
> > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> asking for oldbie input on this
> > one.)
>
> No, we realized there was a problem. It's best
> resolved by not attempting
> to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> places directly, but rather to
> hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
>
> la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
>
Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
do this in afterthought mode — a fairly typical
situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
afterthought modifications of any sort?

Posted by pycyn on Wed 30 of Mar, 2005 14:34 GMT posts: 2388

> Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
>
> > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> actual usage. I'll try to think
> > up an example that uses it the right way. (If
> *you* could give a good
> > example, that would be swell.)
>
> Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> vs. Alice likes Bob more
> than (Alice likes) Charlie.
>
> > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> could be intentional on the part
> > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> asking for oldbie input on this
> > one.)
>
> No, we realized there was a problem. It's best
> resolved by not attempting
> to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> places directly, but rather to
> hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
>
> la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
>
Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
do this in afterthought mode — a fairly typical
situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
afterthought modifications of any sort?

Posted by pycyn on Wed 30 of Mar, 2005 16:55 GMT posts: 2388

wrote:
>
> --- John Cowan <jcowan@reutershealth.com>
> wrote:
> > Arnt Richard Johansen scripsit:
> >
> > > Gee, I see the problem. IIRC that was from
> > actual usage. I'll try to think
> > > up an example that uses it the right way.
> (If
> > *you* could give a good
> > > example, that would be swell.)
> >
> > Alice likes Bob more than Charlie (likes Bob)
> > vs. Alice likes Bob more
> > than (Alice likes) Charlie.
> >
> > > Is it possible/likely that this vagueness
> > could be intentional on the part
> > > of those who added {mau}? (I am especially
> > asking for oldbie input on this
> > > one.)
> >
> > No, we realized there was a problem. It's
> best
> > resolved by not attempting
> > to use semau (and friends) to create bridi
> > places directly, but rather to
> > hook them using ne to the appropriate terbri:
> >
> > la alis. ne semau la tcarlis. nelci la bab.
> > la alis. nelci la bab. ne semau la tcarlis.
> >
> Good; this is the obvious solution — properly
> implemented. But, as I asked before, how do we
> do this in afterthought mode — a fairly
> typical
> situation? Come to that, how do we toss on
> afterthought modifications of any sort?
>
Here the "obvious" solution is to use FA and the
modification wanted. This seems to work with
some forms — sumti: "John went the store — the
short one (John)" {la djan klama le zarci fa le
tordu} — but not with most others, even {po'u
le tordu} the likely intention of the acceptable
form. And certainly not with something like {se
mau} (or even {ne semau}). I suspect there is a
work-around here, short of repeating the original
sumti or its pronoun (though that latter is not
too bad), but it is beyond my knoledge for
fiddling.

Posted by rlpowell on Wed 25 of May, 2005 20:18 GMT posts: 14214

Non-jbovlaste word:

klanrbeli

-Robin

Posted by rlpowell on Mon 08 of Aug, 2005 22:42 GMT posts: 14214

mi zbasu lo zdani te po'i lo bliku
I build a house out of blocks.

Has the "a sane person would use the x3 of zbasu" problem. I have
no better suggestion at this time, however.

-Robin

Posted by rlpowell on Mon 08 of Aug, 2005 22:43 GMT posts: 14214

I apologize for all the complaining I did about my words; you had to
do *ci'u*. JFCOAC1.

-Robin

1: Jesus Fucking Christ On A Crutch.

> Examples of se la'u Usage
>
> le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).

{se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
meters. For example:

le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
be lo mitre be li pa no no

> Examples of ji'e Usage
> None found. Constructed example follows:
>
> do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> You can succeed in whatever you want.

The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
"It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."

To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:

do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...

mu'o mi'e xorxes

Posted by rlpowell on Mon 08 of Aug, 2005 23:22 GMT posts: 14214

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 01:01:20PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > Examples of se la'u Usage
> >
> > le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> > sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> > The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).
>
> {se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
> meters. For example:
>
> le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
> be lo mitre be li pa no no

Cool. Thanks.

> > Examples of ji'e Usage
> > None found. Constructed example follows:
> >
> > do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> > Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> > You can succeed in whatever you want.
>
> The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
> "It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."

I don't see much semantic difference there, actually, except in the
first English translation mentioning abilit.

> To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:
>
> do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...

Done.

-Robin

Posted by rlpowell on Mon 08 of Aug, 2005 23:23 GMT posts: 14214

Errrm, except this is Arnt's section...

I'll leave it alone, and he can change it back if he wants.

-Robin

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 12:14:49PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 01:01:20PM -0300, Jorge Llamb?as wrote:
> > > Examples of se la'u Usage
> > >
> > > le nolraitru to ri poi tcetcetcetce clani se la'u so'i
> > > sai mitre be li pa no no toi
> > > The king (who's really tall, hundreds of metres).
> >
> > {se la'u} should tag a number, {la'u} is for things like
> > meters. For example:
> >
> > le nolraitru cu clani se la'u li so'i te la'u lo se gradu
> > be lo mitre be li pa no no
>
> Cool. Thanks.
>
> > > Examples of ji'e Usage
> > > None found. Constructed example follows:
> > >
> > > do ka'e snada ji'e po'o lo se djica be do
> > > Your ability to succeed is limited only by what you desire.
> > > You can succeed in whatever you want.
> >
> > The limit here is to snada, not to ka'e:
> > "It is possible that your success is limited by what you want."
>
> I don't see much semantic difference there, actually, except in the
> first English translation mentioning abilit.
>
> > To limit the ability, the selbri should be {kakne}:
> >
> > do kakne lo nu snada kei ji'e po'o...
>
> Done.
>
> -Robin
>
>
>

--
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Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
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