Sources for luj1999? Posted by arj on Sat 01 of Nov, 2008 21:44 GMT posts: 953 Use this thread to discuss the Sources for luj1999? page.
Posted by arj on Sat 01 of Nov, 2008 21:44 GMT posts: 953 http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-dictionary/Working/luj1999.ZIP This file contains lujvo that have been automatically excerpted from texts, semi-automatically converted into their canonical forms. It also contains frequency counts of this words. What I would like to know is which source texts have been used, and if they are available somewhere. To take a specific example, consider this line: (2) cevyspe god+married canonical form=ceispe This apparently means that the word "cevyspe" was used two times in the corpus. But a web search turns up nothing for "cevyspe", save an older word frequency list: http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/frequencies2.txt What do I need to have to make sure that I have the context for every word that occurs in luj1999.zip? -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Keyboard: The Ultimate Input Device To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by lojbab on Sun 02 of Nov, 2008 00:31 GMT posts: 162 Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-dictionary/Working/luj1999.ZIP > > This file contains lujvo that have been automatically excerpted from texts, semi-automatically converted into their canonical forms. It also contains frequency counts of this words. > > What I would like to know is which source texts have been used, and if they are available somewhere. > > To take a specific example, consider this line: > > (2) cevyspe god+married canonical form=ceispe > > This apparently means that the word "cevyspe" was used two times in the corpus. But a web search turns up nothing for "cevyspe", save an older word frequency list: > > http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/frequencies2.txt > > What do I need to have to make sure that I have the context for every word that occurs in luj1999.zip? You can ask lojbab, who MAY be able to find it in his archives, since he was the one who created the list %^) In this case, the word was actually used only once but appeared in two different Lojban List messages reporting results of an early "phone game" These are the two messages headers: From bennetto-jack@CS.YALE.EDU Thu Sep 5 17:05:22 1991 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 91 16:42:03 EDT From: Jack Bennetto <bennetto-jack@CS.YALE.EDU> To: lojbab@grebyn.com Subject: lojbanic telephone Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1991 20:22:39 EST Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMA.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU> From: Jack Bennetto <bennetto-jack%CS.YALE.EDU@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: lojbanic telephone X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@GREBYN.COM> Here is the usage: > Sentence 4: > > Each day Sister Margeret asked who had been able to do the > homework. > > ca ra le pu djedi la margaret. poi cevyspe cu te preti > loi (?) nu ma snada danfu fo le zdatelcli > > Yesterday, Sister Margaret asked, "What are the secrets to successful > housekeeping?" It appears that "cevyspe" is intended to be the titular address for a nun. Possibly not the most obvious meaning to someone unfamiliar with the culture. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by lagejyspa on Mon 03 of Nov, 2008 19:44 GMT posts: 350 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote: > Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: >> >> http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-dictionary/Working/luj1999.ZIP >> >> This file contains lujvo that have been automatically excerpted from >> texts, semi-automatically converted into their canonical forms. It also >> contains frequency counts of this words. >> >> What I would like to know is which source texts have been used, and if >> they are available somewhere. >> >> To take a specific example, consider this line: >> >> (2) cevyspe god+married >> canonical form=ceispe >> >> This apparently means that the word "cevyspe" was used two times in the >> corpus. But a web search turns up nothing for "cevyspe", save an older word >> frequency list: >> >> http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/frequencies2.txt >> >> What do I need to have to make sure that I have the context for every word >> that occurs in luj1999.zip? > > You can ask lojbab, who MAY be able to find it in his archives, since he was > the one who created the list %^) > > In this case, the word was actually used only once but appeared in two > different Lojban List messages reporting results of an early "phone game" > > These are the two messages headers: > > From bennetto-jack@CS.YALE.EDU Thu Sep 5 17:05:22 1991 > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 91 16:42:03 EDT > From: Jack Bennetto <bennetto-jack@CS.YALE.EDU> > To: lojbab@grebyn.com > Subject: lojbanic telephone > > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1991 20:22:39 EST > Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMA.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU> > From: Jack Bennetto <bennetto-jack%CS.YALE.EDU@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU> > Subject: lojbanic telephone > X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu > To: Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@GREBYN.COM> > > Here is the usage: >> >> Sentence 4: >> >> Each day Sister Margeret asked who had been able to do the >> homework. >> >> ca ra le pu djedi la margaret. poi cevyspe cu te preti >> loi (?) nu ma snada danfu fo le zdatelcli >> >> Yesterday, Sister Margaret asked, "What are the secrets to successful >> housekeeping?" > > It appears that "cevyspe" is intended to be the titular address for a nun. > Possibly not the most obvious meaning to someone unfamiliar with the > culture. > > > lojbab > Of course (and I don't know how correctly it might have read in 1991), with modern day rafsi, grammar, and gismu places, that sentence says something like "At the same time as that, the former day asked of Sister Margaret what was a succesful answer (by?) students of home security" ;-) --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by lojbab on Tue 04 of Nov, 2008 00:23 GMT posts: 162 Michael Turniansky wrote: > Of course (and I don't know how correctly it might have read in > 1991), with modern day rafsi, grammar, and gismu places, that sentence > says something like "At the same time as that, the former day asked of > Sister Margaret what was a succesful answer (by?) students of home > security" ;-) Several rafsi were changed in 1994. I believe that this is accounted for in the lujvo1999 file, but it could make looking for usage from before 1994 more difficult. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by lagejyspa on Tue 04 of Nov, 2008 13:29 GMT posts: 350 On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote: > Michael Turniansky wrote: >> >> Of course (and I don't know how correctly it might have read in >> 1991), with modern day rafsi, grammar, and gismu places, that sentence >> says something like "At the same time as that, the former day asked of >> Sister Margaret what was a succesful answer (by?) students of home >> security" ;-) > > Several rafsi were changed in 1994. I believe that this is accounted for in > the lujvo1999 file, but it could make looking for usage from before 1994 > more difficult. > Right, I knew about the great rafsi shift, but I don't know if/how gismu places might have changed (did danfu really have a fourth place?), nor grammar might have changed (was "ca ra le pu djedi" really a single clause?) Those do more to mess up the meaning than the one changed lujvo. --gejyspa To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by Anonymous on Tue 04 of Nov, 2008 14:51 GMT On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: > > Right, I knew about the great rafsi shift, but I don't know if/how > gismu places might have changed (did danfu really have a fourth > place?), nor grammar might have changed (was "ca ra le pu djedi" > really a single clause?) Those do more to mess up the meaning than > the one changed lujvo. "ra" looks suspiciously like the Loglan word for "ro". mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
Posted by arj on Tue 04 of Nov, 2008 15:05 GMT posts: 953 On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 11:49:41AM -0300, Jorge LlambÃas wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Michael Turniansky > <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Right, I knew about the great rafsi shift, but I don't know if/how > > gismu places might have changed (did danfu really have a fourth > > place?), nor grammar might have changed (was "ca ra le pu djedi" > > really a single clause?) Those do more to mess up the meaning than > > the one changed lujvo. > > "ra" looks suspiciously like the Loglan word for "ro". It does indeed, but in Lojban, "ra" had been a back-counting anaphora all the way since 1988. See http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Miscellaneous+Lojban+Stuff#history . -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Information wants to be anthropomorphized! To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
