Lojban In General

Posted by kolin.rait on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 34

> Just thought i would show off ...

... and now it's crashed my email client and scrambled my mail
database. Why did you post 9 3MB jpegs instead of a selection
of reduced size PNGs?

This is going to take hours to sort out.

--
Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.

Denbridge Marine Limited.
Registered in England and Wales at DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.
Registered Number 4850477

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by brablonau on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 80

Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> writes:

> Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy
> of Lojban for Beginners

Are you nungletu nuts?! Sending that to TWO mailing lists, let alone
even attaching all that to an email message to begin with? There's a
reason why the World Wide Web exists... and this is a good example of
it!

Moderator: Do these lists have MIME restrictions? If not, can we
please turn them on? ki'esai

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by Eppcott on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 4740

Seth,

Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.

-Eppcott

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
>  Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of Lojban
> for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks. It
> just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you think. I
> also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one of the
> pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch thick.
>
> within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound lojban-english
> dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket dictionary,
> so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set, and can
> be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the design of
> this? Any recommendations on the title?
>
> seryf
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lukebergen on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 493

Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are for.
Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people had
dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
thumbnails.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:

> Seth,
>
> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
>
> -Eppcott
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
> > Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of
> Lojban
> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks. It
> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you think. I
> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one of
> the
> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch thick.
> >
> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound lojban-english
> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
> dictionary,
> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set, and
> can
> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the design
> of
> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
> >
> > seryf
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by lukebergen on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 493

I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a printed
dictionary. Good luck with it. I hope we/you get one published soon.

If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense for
it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will probably
be extra room?

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are for.
> Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people had
> dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
> thumbnails.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Seth,
>>
>> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
>> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
>> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
>>
>> -Eppcott
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
>> > Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of
>> Lojban
>> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks.
>> It
>> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you think.
>> I
>> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one of
>> the
>> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch
>> thick.
>> >
>> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound
>> lojban-english
>> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
>> dictionary,
>> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set, and
>> can
>> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the
>> design of
>> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
>> >
>> > seryf
>> >
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>>
>

Posted by baisong on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 99

Lulu looks cool-- whats stopping LLG from doing something there? If we need
donations, I'll pitch in! I want a dictionary too (with example sentences of
course, otherwise the book would be far to small!)!

BTW, I took the initiative and put smaller versions of the JPGs on my
server, visible here:

http://newpine.net/rsc/dl/lojban/sethLFBprint

(Seth- I'm assuming they're like, creative commons usage or whatever,
otherwise I'll take them down. Also-- I like how, for scale, you chose to
compare the book cover to religious material, not only giving clear contrast
to physical dimensions, but also clear contrast between ambiguous and
unambiguous sets of vocabulary.)

mu'o mi'e ku'us

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:34, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a printed
> dictionary. Good luck with it. I hope we/you get one published soon.
>
> If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense for
> it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will probably
> be extra room?
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are for.
>> Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people had
>> dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
>> thumbnails.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Seth,
>>>
>>> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
>>> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
>>> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
>>>
>>> -Eppcott
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
>>> > Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of
>>> Lojban
>>> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks.
>>> It
>>> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you think.
>>> I
>>> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one
>>> of the
>>> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch
>>> thick.
>>> >
>>> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound
>>> lojban-english
>>> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
>>> dictionary,
>>> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set, and
>>> can
>>> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the
>>> design of
>>> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
>>> >
>>> > seryf
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or
>>> if
>>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Posted by Eppcott on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 4740

The book would have to be called an unofficial dictionary, or just a
wordlist. Most Lojbanists, I included, have wanted a dictionary for a
long time. The roadblock is that many of the rare and obscure cmavo
are still being worked on by the BPFK. In fact, even the most common
words in the language, "le" and "lo", have split between the formal
rules and the actual usage, a set of improvements named "xorlo".

However, that still leaves a vast amount of the language that is
uncontroversial and unlikely to change. If a book containing such a
list had "unofficial" right in the title, and it was understood that
the LLG does not put its stamp of approval on it, it might be
possible. I would love that.

-Eppcott

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lulu looks cool-- whats stopping LLG from doing something there? If we need
> donations, I'll pitch in! I want a dictionary too (with example sentences of
> course, otherwise the book would be far to small!)!
>
> BTW, I took the initiative and put smaller versions of the JPGs on my
> server, visible here:
>
> http://newpine.net/rsc/dl/lojban/sethLFBprint
>
> (Seth- I'm assuming they're like, creative commons usage or whatever,
> otherwise I'll take them down. Also-- I like how, for scale, you chose to
> compare the book cover to religious material, not only giving clear contrast
> to physical dimensions, but also clear contrast between ambiguous and
> unambiguous sets of vocabulary.)
>
> mu'o mi'e ku'us
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:34, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a printed
>> dictionary.  Good luck with it.  I hope we/you get one published soon.
>>
>> If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense for
>> it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will probably
>> be extra room?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Indeed, nice work.  And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are
>>> for.  Although it didn't give me a problem.  I didn't think many people had
>>> dial-up any more.  Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
>>> thumbnails.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Seth,
>>>>
>>>> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
>>>> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
>>>> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
>>>>
>>>> -Eppcott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> >  Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of
>>>> > Lojban
>>>> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks.
>>>> > It
>>>> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you
>>>> > think. I
>>>> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one
>>>> > of the
>>>> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch
>>>> > thick.
>>>> >
>>>> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound
>>>> > lojban-english
>>>> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
>>>> > dictionary,
>>>> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set,
>>>> > and can
>>>> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the
>>>> > design of
>>>> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
>>>> >
>>>> > seryf
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>>>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>>>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or
>>>> if
>>>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by baisong on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 99

Well, if the will is there, and the wiki is there... what's the best way to
go about compiling such a book? Here's a completely uninformed proposal from
an amateur wiki user:

1) On the lojban.org wiki, create a category (called something like
"unapproved, unofficial, blasphemous dictionary, by popular demand")

2) Make a bunch of word lists as entries in this category

3) If and whenever anyone wants to print an unofficial dictionary, they draw
from the entries in this category.

I'm not just an amatuer wikist, but also new to the lojban community, so I
don't know if this sounds contrived or infeasible. But I think set up in
this way it would still be (1) connected to the central lojban resource on
the web, (2) allow for collaborative or personal use and reuse.

In fact, the wordlists are already on the site, the only novel thing about
this is publicly specifying editable (and therefore unofficial) versions
specifically for the use of printing.

thoughts?

mu'o mi'e ku'us

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:16, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:

> The book would have to be called an unofficial dictionary, or just a
> wordlist. Most Lojbanists, I included, have wanted a dictionary for a
> long time. The roadblock is that many of the rare and obscure cmavo
> are still being worked on by the BPFK. In fact, even the most common
> words in the language, "le" and "lo", have split between the formal
> rules and the actual usage, a set of improvements named "xorlo".
>
> However, that still leaves a vast amount of the language that is
> uncontroversial and unlikely to change. If a book containing such a
> list had "unofficial" right in the title, and it was understood that
> the LLG does not put its stamp of approval on it, it might be
> possible. I would love that.
>
> -Eppcott
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Lulu looks cool-- whats stopping LLG from doing something there? If we
> need
> > donations, I'll pitch in! I want a dictionary too (with example sentences
> of
> > course, otherwise the book would be far to small!)!
> >
> > BTW, I took the initiative and put smaller versions of the JPGs on my
> > server, visible here:
> >
> > http://newpine.net/rsc/dl/lojban/sethLFBprint
> >
> > (Seth- I'm assuming they're like, creative commons usage or whatever,
> > otherwise I'll take them down. Also-- I like how, for scale, you chose to
> > compare the book cover to religious material, not only giving clear
> contrast
> > to physical dimensions, but also clear contrast between ambiguous and
> > unambiguous sets of vocabulary.)
> >
> > mu'o mi'e ku'us
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:34, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a
> printed
> >> dictionary. Good luck with it. I hope we/you get one published soon.
> >>
> >> If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense
> for
> >> it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will
> probably
> >> be extra room?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are
> >>> for. Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people
> had
> >>> dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
> >>> thumbnails.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Seth,
> >>>>
> >>>> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
> >>>> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
> >>>> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Eppcott
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>> > Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy
> of
> >>>> > Lojban
> >>>> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20
> bucks.
> >>>> > It
> >>>> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you
> >>>> > think. I
> >>>> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in
> one
> >>>> > of the
> >>>> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch
> >>>> > thick.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound
> >>>> > lojban-english
> >>>> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
> >>>> > dictionary,
> >>>> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set,
> >>>> > and can
> >>>> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the
> >>>> > design of
> >>>> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
> >>>> >
> >>>> > seryf
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> >>>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> >>>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/,
> or
> >>>> if
> >>>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by kolin.rait on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 34

> Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends
> are for. Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think
> many people had dial-up any more.

That's a very narrow world-view. Not everyone sits all day every
day in a shiny office with unlimited broadband access. For example,
my work often takes me to places that don't have telephone lines or
3G coverage and I rely on older and simpler technology. With emails
like this, speeds of 40k bits/sec means the links are unusable.

Finding out what's wrong is also hard.

Besides, I still think it's simply rude to dump 27MB of email into
hundreds of people's mailboxes without warning or asking permission.
Until now the lojban list was exempt from most of my filtering, but
that's changing.

--
Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.

Denbridge Marine Limited.
Registered in England and Wales at DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.
Registered Number 4850477

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lukebergen on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:56 GMT posts: 493

> In fact, the wordlists are already on the site, the only novel thing about
this is publicly
> specifying editable (and therefore unofficial) versions specifically for
the use of printing.
>
> thoughts?

Oh, I would have expected (and was hoping) for us to use Yoav
Nir/AmberShadow's excellent jbovlaste based pdf
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=668&download=y
Although that does have lujvo and such in it so that would really add to the
"un-officialness" of it. But if it's going to be un-official anyway why not
go all out.

> That's a very narrow world-view. Not everyone sits all day every
> day in a shiny office with unlimited broadband access. For example,
> my work often takes me to places that don't have telephone lines or
> 3G coverage and I rely on older and simpler technology. With emails
> like this, speeds of 40k bits/sec means the links are unusable.

First of all misconception !=
world-viewhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_view
I'm very fond of my world-view, but I am more than willing to give up my
mis-conception that most of the people on the mailing list have access to
broadband internet connections. Also, yes, my office is nice and shiny, I
choose to live this life because I enjoy it and I am able to. I do not,
however, have a shiny high-horse to sit upon.

40 kbits/sec. That must be incredibly frustrating. I don't think I'd even
bother trying to use the internet (except for when I absolutely had to for
work/etc...) at those speeds. You are a better man than I (patience-wise).
It brings up an interesting question though... should we also have a mirror
for the list that sends messages by carrier pigeon for those people who have
0 internet access? At what point does limited technology just become
"unsupported"?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Colin Wright <
colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> wrote:

> > Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends
> > are for. Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think
> > many people had dial-up any more.
>
> That's a very narrow world-view. Not everyone sits all day every
> day in a shiny office with unlimited broadband access. For example,
> my work often takes me to places that don't have telephone lines or
> 3G coverage and I rely on older and simpler technology. With emails
> like this, speeds of 40k bits/sec means the links are unusable.
>
> Finding out what's wrong is also hard.
>
> Besides, I still think it's simply rude to dump 27MB of email into
> hundreds of people's mailboxes without warning or asking permission.
> Until now the lojban list was exempt from most of my filtering, but
> that's changing.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
> content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.
>
> Denbridge Marine Limited.
> Registered in England and Wales at DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.
> Registered Number 4850477
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by kolin.rait on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:57 GMT posts: 34

> > That's a very narrow world-view. Not everyone sits all day every
> > day in a shiny office with unlimited broadband access. For example,
> > my work often takes me to places that don't have telephone lines or
> > 3G coverage and I rely on older and simpler technology. With emails
> > like this, speeds of 40k bits/sec means the links are unusable.
>
> First of all misconception != world-view
> I'm very fond of my world-view, but I am more than willing to give up my
> mis-conception that most of the people on the mailing list have access to
> broadband internet connections. Also, yes, my office is nice and shiny, I
> choose to live this life because I enjoy it and I am able to. I do not,
> however, have a shiny high-horse to sit upon.

I wrote a long reply to this, but I've deleted it. I would probably have
ended up regretting it. My apologies if I've offended you. I didn't think I
was on a high-horse, shiny or otherwise.

> 40 kbits/sec. That must be incredibly frustrating.

Once 40Kbits/sec was considered unreasonably fast. Today when I'm on an oil
rig, pilot boat, lighthouse, helicopter or container ship it still can be.
In those cases I turn off images, animations, video, sound, and just pull the
text. Accessing information about, and reference material for, lojban is
perfectly possible. Downloading 27MB of email isn't.

When I'm in the office I sometimes measure data rates. Today I pulled an
article. 643KB of data - 23KB extracted text. Similarly, those images
didn't have to be original size JPGs, and didn't have to be emailed to
everyone.

> ... should we also have a mirror for the list that sends messages
> by carrier pigeon for those people who have 0 internet access?

Apart from this comment, I don't think that deserves a reply. I suggest you
simply dismiss me as a grumpy old man living in the past.

--
Dr C.D.Wright, Director of Innovation and Engineering
Denbridge Marine Limited, Cammell Lairds Waterfront Park,
Campbeltown Road, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH41 9HP.

Tel: +44 (0)151 649 4080
Fax: +44 (0)870 051 8953
Mob: +44 (0)7980 57 22 96

Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.

Denbridge Marine Limited.
Registered in England and Wales, Company Number 4850477
Registered office: DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by kolin.rait on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:57 GMT posts: 34

<sigh>

> I wrote a long reply to this, but I've deleted it.

... and I should've stopped there. Ignore my last reply - it adds nothing to
the world of lojban.

--
Dr C.D.Wright, Director of Innovation and Engineering
Denbridge Marine Limited, Cammell Lairds Waterfront Park,
Campbeltown Road, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH41 9HP.

Tel: +44 (0)151 649 4080
Fax: +44 (0)870 051 8953
Mob: +44 (0)7980 57 22 96

Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.

Denbridge Marine Limited.
Registered in England and Wales, Company Number 4850477
Registered office: DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by seryf on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:57 GMT posts: 71

thanks guys, i was beginning to think i had done something wrong.the formatting of the dict will take a month or so, depending on manyfactors of course. i will include an english to lojban version sectionas well, and perhaps some helps, and the experimental words. this isthe lojban learner's portable aid.

as for my choice of dvd, it was definitely not a statement on my comparison of religion vs. lojban. it just happened to be the closest dvd in my apartment to where i was taking the pics. i consider myself to be a religious guy, though. thanks, btw, for the pic revision. i did not realize the size of the jpegs when i sent them, nor that they would cause such havoc.

seth

---Original Message---
From: Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2009 7:01 pm
Subject: lojban Re: LFB print

Lulu looks cool-- whats stopping LLG from doing something there? If we need donations, I'll pitch in! I want a dictionary too (with example sentences of course, otherwise the book would be far to small!)!

BTW, I took the initiative and put smaller versions of the JPGs on my server, visible here:

http://newpine.net/rsc/dl/lojban/sethLFBprint

(Seth- I'm assuming they're like, creative commons usage or whatever, otherwise I'll take them down. Also-- I like how, for scale, you chose to compare the book cover to religious material, not only giving clear contrast to physical dimensions, but also clear contrast between ambiguous and unambiguous sets of vocabulary.)

mu'o mi'e ku'us

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:34, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a printed dictionary. Good luck with it. I hope we/you get one published soon.

If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense for it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will probably be extra room?

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are for. Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people had dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as thumbnails.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:

Seth,

Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.

-Eppcott

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
> Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of Lojban
> for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks. It
> just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you think. I
> also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one of the
> pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch thick.
>
> within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound lojban-english
> dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket dictionary,
> so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set, and can
> be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the design of
> this? Any recommendations on the title?
>
> seryf
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by seryf on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:57 GMT posts: 71

the book will in all likelihood just be something for me to use as a printed resource that is more friendly to use and carry than the 25 page small type dictionary file or something similar. nothing official at all.

---Original Message---
From: Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2009 7:16 pm
Subject: lojban Re: LFB print

The book would have to be called an unofficial dictionary, or just a
wordlist. Most Lojbanists, I included, have wanted a dictionary for a
long time. The roadblock is that many of the rare and obscure cmavo
are still being worked on by the BPFK. In fact, even the most common
words in the language, "le" and "lo", have split between the formal
rules and the actual usage, a set of improvements named "xorlo".

However, that still leaves a vast amount of the language that is
uncontroversial and unlikely to change. If a book containing such a
list had "unofficial" right in the title, and it was understood that
the LLG does not put its stamp of approval on it, it might be
possible. I would love that.

-Eppcott

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lulu looks cool-- whats stopping LLG from doing something there? If we need
> donations, I'll pitch in! I want a dictionary too (with example sentences of
> course, otherwise the book would be far to small!)!
>
> BTW, I took the initiative and put smaller versions of the JPGs on my
> server, visible here:
>
> http://newpine.net/rsc/dl/lojban/sethLFBprint
>
> (Seth- I'm assuming they're like, creative commons usage or whatever,
> otherwise I'll take them down. Also-- I like how, for scale, you chose to
> compare the book cover to religious material, not only giving clear contrast
> to physical dimensions, but also clear contrast between ambiguous and
> unambiguous sets of vocabulary.)
>
> mu'o mi'e ku'us
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 08:34, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I forgot to mention, I've really been looking forward to getting a printed
>> dictionary. Good luck with it. I hope we/you get one published soon.
>>
>> If such a dictionary is not going to contain lujvo would it make sense for
>> it to be an english-> lojban AND lojban->english since there will probably
>> be extra room?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Indeed, nice work. And yeah that's what photobucket and friends are
>>> for. Although it didn't give me a problem. I didn't think many people had
>>> dial-up any more. Gmail loaded the messages in a couple of seconds as
>>> thumbnails.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Seth,
>>>>
>>>> Setting aside the issue of emailing photos at unnecessarily-high
>>>> resolution, that is a nice-looking book. Thank you for using my
>>>> graphic for the cover, and thank you for showing it.
>>>>
>>>> -Eppcott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Seth <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> > Just thought i would show off my brand new hot off the press copy of
>>>> > Lojban
>>>> > for Beginners, which i printed here on BYU campus for around 20 bucks.
>>>> > It
>>>> > just might be the first bound copy of the book. Tell me what you
>>>> > think. I
>>>> > also designed the cover using epcott's brilliant flag. The dvd in one
>>>> > of the
>>>> > pics is to show the relative size of the book. It is about an inch
>>>> > thick.
>>>> >
>>>> > within the next month, i plan on finishing the first bound
>>>> > lojban-english
>>>> > dictionary. The standard wordlists are the focus for this pocket
>>>> > dictionary,
>>>> > so I will not be including any lujvo, as they are not a finite set,
>>>> > and can
>>>> > be recreated from the basic wordlists. Any recommendations for the
>>>> > design of
>>>> > this? Any recommendations on the title?
>>>> >
>>>> > seryf
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>>>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>>>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or
>>>> if
>>>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by winkerbean on Mon 07 of Dec, 2009 08:59 GMT posts: 42

@Colin: I really don't want to get too involved in this portion of the
discussion. But I wanted to say, I do not think of You as a "grumpy old man
living in the past". You are Someone to Whom something unpleasant happened
and Who became upset. I wouldn't say the response makes You a "grumpy old
man living in the past"; it makes You Human. ;-)

Back to the general discussion, though, I am confused. I was under the
impression LFB was available in book form already. Or am I thinking of CLL?

mi'e xuinkrbin.

2009/12/3 Colin Wright <colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com>

> <sigh>
>
> > I wrote a long reply to this, but I've deleted it.
>
> ... and I should've stopped there. Ignore my last reply - it adds nothing
> to
> the world of lojban.
>
> --
> Dr C.D.Wright, Director of Innovation and Engineering
> Denbridge Marine Limited, Cammell Lairds Waterfront Park,
> Campbeltown Road, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH41 9HP.
>
> Tel: +44 (0)151 649 4080
> Fax: +44 (0)870 051 8953
> Mob: +44 (0)7980 57 22 96
>
> Denbridge Marine Limited may monitor email traffic data and the
> content of email for the purposes of security and staff training.
>
> Denbridge Marine Limited.
> Registered in England and Wales, Company Number 4850477
> Registered office: DSG, 43 Castle St, Liverpool. L2 9TL.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>