Lojban In General

Posted by lindarthebard on Wed 03 of Feb, 2010 00:14 GMT posts: 66

>From: Geoff Hacker <geoff.hacker@gmail.com>
>To: lojban-list@lojban.org
>Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 6:57:13 PM
>Subject: lojban Place structure of bijyjbu
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I just looked up "desk" in the "current" version of the jvoste (it is "bijyjbu") and do not think that its place structure is very user-friendly:
>
>x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = jubme2 (table material), x3 = jubme3 (leg), x4 = briju2 (office worker)
>
>If I talk about a desk in an office, I am really highly unlikely to be referring to it in the context of what material or legs it has. I am far more likely to be saying that it is so-and-so's desk, and maybe after that further details about the office in which the desk appears, so I would have thought a more logical place structure was:
>
>x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = briju2 (office worker) x3 = briju1 (office) x4 = briju3 (office location) and then maybe x5 = jubme2 (table material - so I could say, e.g., that it is a bijyjbu be fu lo mahogany.)
>
>What do people think, and how would the jvoste get changed if a different consensus were reached?
>
>Geoff

<scruffy>Second.</scruffy>

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Posted by PierreAbbat on Wed 03 of Feb, 2010 00:14 GMT posts: 324

On Sunday 03 January 2010 21:57:13 Geoff Hacker wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just looked up "desk" in the "current" version of the jvoste (it is
> "bijyjbu") and do not think that its place structure is very user-friendly:
>
> x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = jubme2 (table material), x3 = jubme3 (leg), x4 =
> briju2 (office worker)
> If I talk about a desk in an office, I am really highly unlikely to be
> referring to it in the context of what material or legs it has. I am far
> more likely to be saying that it is so-and-so's desk, and maybe after that
> further details about the office in which the desk appears, so I would have
> thought a more logical place structure was:
>
> x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = briju2 (office worker) x3 = briju1 (office) x4 =
> briju3 (office location) and then *maybe* x5 = jubme2 (table material - so
> I could say, e.g., that it is a bijyjbu be fu lo mahogany.)
>
> What do people think, and how would the jvoste get changed if a different
> consensus were reached?

I think the place structure should be kept as it is, for jvojva reasons. An
appropriate word for the place structure you're thinking of is "jbubriju". By
the way, mahogany is ma'agni - easy enough?

Pierre

--
La sal en el mar es más que en la sangre.
Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

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Posted by geoffhacker on Wed 03 of Feb, 2010 00:14 GMT posts: 11

Yes, except that that would then mean a table-office, which is also
unintuitive. The word describes a kind of table, not a kind of office. And
the x1 place of jubme is also the logical first place of the lujvo, which I
think would also be more consistent with bijyjbu, even according to the
jvojva, IIRC. Besides, I didn't think the jvojva were that rigid, if I
recall Nick Nicholas's paper on the "rules" of lujvo construction, assuming
that it hasn't changed since I read it.
Ah, ma'agani. A nice, clean type-4 fu'ivla, I take it.

Geoff

> On Sunday 03 January 2010 21:57:13 Geoff Hacker wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just looked up "desk" in the "current" version of the jvoste (it is
> > "bijyjbu") and do not think that its place structure is very
> user-friendly:
> >
> > x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = jubme2 (table material), x3 = jubme3 (leg), x4
> =
> > briju2 (office worker)
> > If I talk about a desk in an office, I am really highly unlikely to be
> > referring to it in the context of what material or legs it has. I am far
> > more likely to be saying that it is so-and-so's desk, and maybe after
> that
> > further details about the office in which the desk appears, so I would
> have
> > thought a more logical place structure was:
> >
> > x1 = jubme1 (table), x2 = briju2 (office worker) x3 = briju1 (office) x4
> =
> > briju3 (office location) and then *maybe* x5 = jubme2 (table material -
> so
> > I could say, e.g., that it is a bijyjbu be fu lo mahogany.)
> >
> > What do people think, and how would the jvoste get changed if a different
> > consensus were reached?
>
> I think the place structure should be kept as it is, for jvojva reasons. An
> appropriate word for the place structure you're thinking of is "jbubriju".
> By
> the way, mahogany is ma'agni - easy enough?
>
> Pierre
>
> --
> La sal en el mar es más que en la sangre.
> Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>