History: BPFK Section: Subordinators

Source of version: 5

! Proposed Definitions And Examples !! Proposed Definition of ''noi'' ;__noi__ (NOI):Incidental clause. ''noi'' is Lojban's non-restrictive relative clause. The "relative" part means that it attaches to a sumti to provide additional information about that sumti. ''noi'' immediately follows a sumti. The ''clause'' part means that it is followed by a full bridi (which means it sometimes must be terminated with ku'o, the NOI selma'o terminator, or vau, the general bridi terminator, particularily if one wishes to add another sumti to the outer bridi). The "non-restrictive" part means that the information in the ''noi'' clause is not sufficient to completely identify the referents of the sumti that ''noi'' is attached to. In other words, the ''noi'' bridi is true about the sumti ''noi'' is attached to, but is not enough to pick out only the things the speaker has in mind among all the possible things that the sumti ''noi'' is attached to could refer to. Generally, ''noi'' is only used when the referents of the sumti have already been explained, or are obvious, and the speaker wishes to give additional information. Inside a ''noi'' clause, ''ke'a'' indicates the precise place of the bridi that the sumti is intended to fill, and translates some uses of the English word "it". !! Examples of ''noi'' Usage le gerku noi blanu cu barda ''The dog, which incidentally is white, is big.'' la alis noi ru'i senci cu sezysku ''Alice, who was continuously sneezing, said to herself.'' ro bifce noi pendo mi cu ji'a xebni lo sigja ''All bees, which are friends of mine, also hate cigars.'' This sentence was taken from the #lojban IRC channel, and asserts that every bee (or wasp or hornet) that exists (ignoring metaphysical issues) is both a friend of the speaker and hates cigars. This is probably not what the author intended. la fengu lo smacu noi fy ke'a cpacu cu penmi le zdani ''The Mad met a mouse, M (The Mad) had acquired it (the mouse), in the house.'' Had to re-order the translation a bit to make the English work; in the Lojban the "met" part comes after the comma-delimited clause. !! Proposed Definition of ''poi'' ;__poi__ (NOI):Restrictive clause. ''poi'' is Lojban's restrictive relative clause. The "relative" part means that it attaches to a sumti to provide additional information about that sumti. ''poi'' immediately follows a sumti. The ''clause'' part means that it is followed by a full bridi (which means it sometimes must be terminated with ku'o, the NOI selma'o terminator, or vau, the general bridi terminator, particularily if one wishes to add another sumti to the outer bridi). The "restrictive" part means that the information in the ''poi'' clause is intended to completely identify the referents of the sumti that ''poi'' is attached to. In other words, out of all the possible things the sumti that ''poi'' is attached to could refer to (which, for example, in the case of ''lo dacti'' is a great many things indeed) sumti is actually intended by the speaker to refer only to those things that the sumti could refer to for which the bridi in the ''poi'' clause is also true. ''poi'' is often used with ''da'' to restrict ''da'' to some part of all the things which exist. Inside a ''noi'' clause, ''ke'a'' indicates the precise place of the bridi that the sumti is intended to fill, and translates some uses of the English word "it". !! Examples of ''poi'' Usage mi djica lo skami tanxe poi cmalu ''I want a computer box which is small.'' pau re'i pat ta poi zvati le canko cu mo ''Question to Pat: that which at the window is what?'' ''Pat: What is that at the window?'' abu tavla le mensi ro le cizra se lifri poi do ke'a puzi ca'o tcidu ''A (for Alice) talked to the (her) sister about all the strange experiences which you about them have just been reading.'' da poi gerku zo'u da vasxu ''There exists at least one thing which is a dog; this thing breathes.'' !! Proposed Definition Of ''voi'' ;__voi__ (NOI):Descriptive clause. ''voi'' is Lojban's non-veridical restrictive relative clause. The "relative" part means that it attaches to a sumti to provide additional information about that sumti. ''voi'' immediately follows a sumti. The ''clause'' part means that it is followed by a full bridi (which means it sometimes must be terminated with ku'o, the NOI selma'o terminator, or vau, the general bridi terminator, particularily if one wishes to add another sumti to the outer bridi). The "restrictive" part means that the information in the ''voi'' clause is intended to completely identify the referents of the sumti that ''voi'' is attached to. In other words, out of all the possible things the sumti that ''voi'' is attached to could refer to (which, for example, in the case of ''lo dacti'' is a great many things indeed) sumti is actually intended by the speaker to refer only to those things that the sumti could refer to for which the bridi in the ''voi'' clause is also true. The ''non-veridical'' part means that the speaker is making no claime that the bridi in the ''voi'' clause actually matches objective reality. Inside a ''noi'' clause, ''ke'a'' indicates the precise place of the bridi that the sumti is intended to fill, and translates some uses of the English word "it". !! Examples of ''voi'' Usage ti voi nanmu cu ninmu ''This which is (non-veridically) a man is a woman.'' The classic example of ''voi'' usage, presumably referring to a case of mistaken identity or a transvestite or transgendered individual. so'e po'o cuxna la cnemokca cedra voi sete pilno le se jmaji mi xagji .iku'i .oisai ponse no da voi cidja ''I am hungry. However, horrors!, posses no thing which is food.'' This is presumably intended to handle under-exaggeration; the speaker probably has __something__ that could be eaten. This is a quote from the #lojban IRC channel. mrilu su'o ciki'o da voi festi mi ''Mail, three thousand of them which are waste products of me.'' This case, also from the #lojban IRC channel, is probably intended to deal with very loose usage of ''festi'', and is probably intended to mean "Three thousand pieces of spam e-mail". ganse vasxu le nicte vacri voi ranti ''Breathing the night air, which is soft.'' Presumably, ''voi'' is being used to deal with the fact that ''ranti'' probably does not literally apply to air. .iku'i ro da voi vi selsnu zo'u .ai skicu da fo ledu'u xukau catni ''However, all things which are here-at subjects of conversation: it is intended that they will be described as to whether they are official.'' This is from the Lojban translation of the lojban.org web site, and the ''voi'' is being used to deal with the usage of ''vi'' to translate the English "here on this site", when a web site has no physical location. The original had zu'o instead of zo'u, which I have corrected. !! Proposed Definition for ''ne'' ;__ne__ (GOI):Incidental phrase. ''ne'' is Lojban's non-restrictive relative phrase marker. The "relative" part means that it attaches to a sumti to provide additional information about that sumti. ''ne'' immediately follows a sumti. The ''phrase'' part means that it is followed by another sumti. The meaning of ''ne'' is that the two sumti are associated with each other in some way. The "non-restrictive" part means that the information in the ''ne'' phrase is not sufficient to completely identify the referents of the sumti that ''ne'' is attached to. In other words, the ''ne'' sumti is associated with the sumti ''ne'' is attached to, but is not enough to pick out only the things the speaker has in mind among all the possible things that the sumti ''ne'' is attached to could refer to. Generally, ''ne'' is only used when the referents of the sumti have already been explained, or are obvious, and the speaker wishes to give additional information. ''ne'' is often used for the loosest form of possession, such as that between a person and the chair they happen to be sitting in at the moment, but can be used for any form of association at all. It is essentially equivalent to ''noi srana''. !! Examples of ''ne'' Usage le blabi gerku ne mi cu batci do ''The white dog, which incidentally is associated with me, bit you.'' This need not be "my" dog in the English sense, but could be the dog I'm walking for a friend, or the dog closest to me, or whatever. le nuntra be la uiliam ca le nu cfari cu fadni i ku'i le nuntolclite be lai norman ne ubu ''The behaviour of William during the beginning is ordinary. However the rudeness of Norman, which incidentally is associated with him (William).'' ti'e ko'a ne li 2.6 cu mutce sutra ''By the way it, which has something to do with the number 2.6, is very fast.'' ;__no'u__ (GOI):Incidental identity. Non-restrictive appositive phrase marker: which incidentally is the same thing as ... ;__pe__ (GOI):Restrictive phrase. Restrictive relative phrase marker: which is associated with ...; loosest associative/possessive. ;__po__ (GOI):Is specific to. Restrictive relative phrase marker: which is specific to ...; normal possessive physical/legal. ;__po'e__ (GOI):Wich belongs to. Restrictive relative phrase marker: which belongs to ... ; inalienable possession. ;__po'u__ (GOI):Restrictive identity. Restrictive appositive phrase marker: which is the same thing as. ;__goi__ (GOI):Pro-sumti assign. Sumti assignment; used to define/assign ko'a/fo'a series pro-sumti; Latin 'sive'. ;__vu'o__ (VUhO):Long scope relative. Joins relative clause/phrase to complete complex or logically connected sumti in afterthought. ;__zi'e__ (ZIhE):Rel clause joiner. Joins relative clauses which apply to the same sumti. ;__ge'u__ (GEhU):End relative phrase. Elidable terminator: end relative/modal phrases; usually elidable in non-complex phrases. ;__ku'o__ (KUhO):End relative clause. Elidable terminator: end NOI relative clause; always elidable, but preferred in complex clauses. ! Formal Definitions (AKA conversion formulas) || noi | PA broda noi brode cu brodi | PA broda ge brode gi brodi poi + ro | ro broda poi brode cu brodi | ro da poi broda zo'u da ga nai brode gi brodi poi + su'o | su'o broda poi brode cu brodi | su'o da poi broda zo'u da ge brode gi brodi voi | PA broda voi brode cu brodi | PA broda poi pe'a broda cu brodi ne | PA1 broda ne PA2 brode | PA1 broda noi ke'a srana PA2 brode pe | PA1 broda pe PA2 brode | PA1 broda poi ke'a srana PA2 brode po'u | PA1 broda po'u PA2 brode | PA1 broda poi ke'a du PA2 brode no'u | PA1 broda no'u PA2 brode | PA1 broda noi ke'a du PA2 brode po | PA1 broda po PA2 brode | PA1 broda poi ke'a se steci srana PA2 brode po'e | PA1 broda po'e PA2 brode | PA1 broda poi ke'a jinzi ke se steci srana PA2 brode || The ''pe'a'' in the ''voi'' formula can better be replaced with ''je'u cu'i'' in some cases and ''da'i'' in others, but I think ''pe'a'' is the most common. ! Notes * Example of the difference between noi and poi: "ro prenu noi xamgu cu klama" is a __monumentally__ different claim from "ro prenu poi xamgu cu klama". The former is "All people are good, and they go." The latter is "All the good people go". Formally, the former is "ro prenu ge xamgu gi klama", and the latter is "ro da poi prenu zo'u da ga nai brode gi brodi". With su'o, however, they are equivalent. * ''voi'' is pretty amazingly useless. This is borne out by the amount of usage it has seen: I have collected above, as far as I can tell, more than 80% of the extant usages of it. ''ne'' is, if anything, __worse__. * I don't know who cares that ''goi'' is Latin 'sive', but I'm sure it's not me.

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