History: ''Gismu'' Agentive And Non-Agentive

Source of version: 2

As ((pne|I)) understand it, the practice of distinguishing between agent (ergative) and non-agent (absolutive), rather than between nonpatient (nominative) and patient (accusative) as is common in Indo-European languages. For a '''very''' brief overview of different case-marking systems, see [http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/r.html] -- part of a rant against Esperanto, but you can ignore that here; this appendix focuses only on cases. Ergative languages use approach (E) in his list. ''How do we express this in Lojban? gausmi?'' * ''gernrgativiti'' --((And)) (mi stidi) Unfortunately English not always marks this distinction (e.g. "return", the infamous keyword of ''xruti'')... See ((Ergativity)). __Non-Agentive form__ & its corresponding __Agentive__: ''cfari'' begins-------------''cfagau'' initiates ''denpa'' pauses-------------''depygau'' delays ''tolcfa'' comes to a stop---''sisti'' halts (or ''dicra'' interrupts) ''sezyxru'' reverts----------''xruti'' restores ''cenba'' varies-------------''cenbygau'' or (''cnegau'') alters ''jelca'' burns--------------''jelgau'' ignites ''snura'' is secure----------''bandu'' protects ''masno'' is slow------------''snogau'' retards (or ''jabre'' brakes) ''muvdu'' moves--------------''muvgau'' causes to move ''mrobi'o'' dies-------------''catra'' kills ''banro'' develops-----------''banrygau'' nurtures ''zenba'' increases----------''zengau'' augments ''banzu'' suffices-----------''bazgau'' fulfills ''culno'' is full------------''tisna'' fills ''basti'' takes the place of--''basygau'' replaces ''klama'' goes----------------''bevri'' conveys ''bilma'' is sick-------------''bilmygau'' sickens ''bredi'' is ready------------''redgau'' prepares ''carna'' turns---------------''cargau'' rotates ''selcfipu'' is confused------''cfipu'' confuses ''cilre'' learns---------------''ctuca'' teaches ''ckeji'' feels ashamed--------''kejgau'' humiliates ''kakne'' is able---------------''curmi'' allows ''curve'' is pure--------------''cuvgau'' purifies ''danfu'' is an answer----------''dafsku'' replies (or ''frati'') ''drani'' is correct------------''dragau'' rectifies ''farlu'' falls-----------------''falgau'' drops ''fatne'' is backwards----------''fatygau'' reverses ''febvi'' comes to a boil-------''fabgau'' boils ''porpi'' comes apart-----------''popygau'' breaks ''fukpi'' is a copy-------------''fukyzba'' duplicates ''gacri'' is a cover------------''gairgau'' covers over ''ganlo'' is closed-------------''ganlygau'' closes ''gusni'' illumines-------------''gusygau'' illuminates ''jdika'' contracts-------------''jdikygau'' decreases ''jinru'' bathes----------------''jirgau'' immerses ''jorne'' is joined to----------''jongau'' connects ''katna'' cutter----------------''katnygau'' cuts ''burcu'' brush-----------------''bruzu'e'' paints ''komcu'' is a comb-------------''komzu'e'' combs ''korcu'' is bent---------------''krogau'' bends ''krefu'' repeats---------------''refygau'' causes to recur ''kunti'' is empty--------------''kutygau'' vacates ''gapru'' is above---------------''lafti'' lifts ''lunbe'' is bare----------------''lubgau'' denudes ''manku'' is dark----------------''mangau'' darkens ''mapti'' fits-------------------''matygau'' matches ''muvdu'' is in motion------------''muvgau'' moves ''selnupre'' is a promise---------''nupre'' promises ''pagre'' penetrates--------------''gregau'' causes to penetrate ''panlo'' is a slice--------------''panlyzba'' slices ''pijne'' is a pin----------------''pijnylasna'' pins ''pindi'' is poor-----------------''pidgau'' impoverishes ''preti'' is a question-----------''retsku'' asks a question (or ''tese preti'') ''preja'' expands-----------------''pejgau'' spreads ''cpana'' is on (''zvati'' at)----''punji'' puts on/at ''punli'' is a swelling-----------''pulgau'' swells ''ranji'' lasts-------------------''ranjygau'' causes to last (makes lasting) ''ranti'' is soft------------------''rangau'' softens ''ricfu'' is rich------------------''cfugau'' enriches ''panzi'' offspring----------------''rorci'' procreates ''viknu'' is thick-----------------''viknygau'' thickens ''ruble'' is weak-------------------''blegau'' weakens ''runme'' is melting----------------''rumgau'' makes melt ''runta'' dissolves------------------''runtygau'' makes dissolve ''sepli'' is apart-------------------''fendi'' divides ''nenri'' is within------------------''setca'' inserts ''jbini'' is between-----------------''setca'' interposes ''spoja'' explodes-------------------''pojgau'' blows up ''sraku'' is sharp-------------------''rakygau'' scratches ''sudga'' is dry---------------------''sudgau'' dries off ''sutra'' is fast--------------------''sutygau'' hastens ''tcena'' stretches------------------''tengau'' extends ''terpa'' fears----------------------''tepygau'' frightenss ''tinsa'' is stiff-------------------''tensygau'' stiffens ''titla'' is sweet--------------------''titygau'' sweetens ''tordu'' is short--------------------''torgau'' shortens ''tsali'' is strong--------------------''tsagau'' strengthens ''tsapi'' ia a spice-------------------''tsapygau'' seasons ''vasru'' contains---------------------''vasygau'' encloses ''vlipa'' is powerful-------------------''vligau'' empowers ''vreji'' is a record of----------------''rejgau'' records ''vrusi'' is a flavor-------------------''vusyga'e'' tastes ''panci'' is an odor---------------------''sumne'' smells ''zasti'' exists-------------------------''zbasu'' creates ''zekri'' is a crime---------------------''zerzukte'' commits a crime ''zifre'' is free------------------------''zifygau'' liberates (There are doubtless others.) * The place structure of ''xruti'' has changed during its history... ** A note [http://66.111.43.200/~jkominek/nuzban/wiki/index.php?Gismu%20list%20errata|here] says (1994) that ''xruti'' was to become non-agentive, although it remains agentive on the ''gismu'' lists of 9-6-94. ** I will have to check my notes, but IIRC the non-agentive meaning was changed to the present agentive at about the same time as the Great Rafsi Shift. * Lojban distinguishes ((forms of causation))...One could extend the foregoing series with ''each of the others''. * One must also consider the "hidden doers", those with non-x1 agent places: ** ''smuni'' has meaning---------------''tersmu'' interprets ** ''tatpi'' is tired------------------''seltatpi'' tires ** ''fengu'' is angry------------------''selfengu'' angers ** ''torni'' is twisting---------------''seltorni'' twists ** ''xalni'' is panicked---------------''selxalni'' terrifies ** ''zgike'' is music------------------''selzgi'' makes music ---- That's a very useful list. We shouldn't overlook the usefulness of ''zil-'', though: ;''zilsti'' comes to a stop :''sisti'' halts (or ''dicra'' interrupts) ;''zilxru'' reverts :''xruti'' restores ;''zilcatra'' dies :''catra'' kills ;''zilcfipu'' is confused :''cfipu'' confuses --((And)) * Wouldn't "is killed" be better as a translation than "dies"? That is, there has to be a killer or there isn't really any ''catra''ing involved. I'd use ''mrobi'o'' (become dead) for just plain dying "without a cause". (And I'm not sure whether consensus was reached on the usage of ''zil-'' in this manner. ''�xu la .andban. lojbo?'') --mi'e ((pne|filip)) * It's a reasonable suspicion to have when I say something, but in this instance it's pretty uncontroversial, at least among the jboskepre. (I can't speak for nonjboskpre, since I don't get to hear their relevant views.)

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Thu 19 of Jul, 2012 14:16 GMT gleki from 178.205.53.206	3
Tue 10 of Apr, 2012 16:14 GMT gleki from 178.204.50.10	2
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