History: BPFK Section: Pro-bridi

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Proposed Definitions And Examples

cmavo: bu'a (GOhA)

Proposed definition

The selbri analogue of {da}, allowing existential and universal claims to be made about predicates.

Proposed Keywords

  • logically quantified predicate variable
  • some selbri

Usage Examples

doi .eimis. pe'i ro bu'a zo'u lo prenu cu ka'e jai bu'a
Amy, my opinion is that for any state/action/property/thing X, (some) people are capable of being/doing/having something to do with X.

ganai do djica lonu bu'a gi gauko bu'a
If there is something you want to happen, make it happen.

zo poi bu'a zo noi .ije zo voi bu'a ma
What is to “voi” as “noi” is to “poi”?

cmavo: bu'e (GOhA)

Proposed definition

The selbri analogue of {de}, allowing existential and universal claims to be made about predicates.

Proposed Keywords

  • logically quantified predicate variable
  • some selbri

Usage Examples

xu ro bu'a ro bu'e zo'u ganai bu'a seni'i bu'e gi ge bu'a gi bu'e
For every P and Q if P implies Q then P AND Q

can someone check this?

xu ro nu bu'a cu du'u bu'e
Is every event a predication?

cmavo: bu'i (GOhA)

Proposed definition

The selbri analogue of {di}, allowing existential and universal claims to be made about predicates.

Proposed Keywords

  • logically quantified predicate variable
  • some selbri

Usage Examples

ro bu'a su'o bu'e su'o bu'i zo'u ge bu'a gi'a bu'e gi'a bu'i gi co'e
For every P, Some Q and Some R: both P or Q or R; and something unspecified.
For any proposition, there is at least two propositions such that both what we were talking about earlier and at least one of the propositions is true.

This translation needs checked; unsure about the logical connectives here.

  • I think the translator got confused by the contrast between Lojban-prefix and English-infix. It's "P and (Q or (R or something))". The first operator has the highest scope. That said, I believe the translation should be something like this: For any proposition, there exists at least one proposition such that there exists at least one proposition such that the first proposition is true and one of the second two propositions or what we were talking about earlier is true. --mi'e zort

cmavo: co'e (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

This represents an unspecified selbri, that is a selbri whose exact meaning is unimportant/obvious.

Proposed Keywords

  • Unspecified selbri

Usage Examples

i ko na co'e sei le nolraitru cu cusku
“Don't,” said the king.

le so'u kurji be le bangu co'e pe la tolkien cu se xebni le drata sarji be le bi'unai bangu
The few custodians of Tolkien's language stuff were despised by the other supporters of that language.

nabmi mi lenu co'e la emaks
I have problems with Emacs.

ju'i clsn ko co'e
Shoulson! Do it.

cmavo: du (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

This is the equality predicate. x1 equals x2, x3, etc. It is used for mathematics and also to say that multiple different sumti actually refer to the same thing.

Proposed Keywords

  • equal

Usage Examples

ko'a du lo mlatu
It (ko'a) is the cat.

mi du re plise
I am two apples (selckiku on IRC - 26 Apr 2010 15:37:49)
zo ta'a cu na du lo sumti tcita pe zo tavla
"ta'a" is not the sumti tcita of "tavla" (lazni on IRC - 31 Mar 2010 02:29:40)

doi norsmu li zepamu pi'i rexamu du li xo
Norsmu, what is 715 × 265?

cmavo: go'a(GOhA)

Proposed Definition

A pro-bridi, repeating other bridi. Repeats a recent main bridi, usually not either of the previous two.

Proposed Keywords

  • recent bridi

Usage Examples

xu ro cmene be lo gugde ba se vasru la jbovlaste
Will all names of countries be in Jbovlaste?

a'o go'a
Hopefully [all names of countries will be in Jbovlaste.

mi troci tu'a lo glico pavbauvlacku
I try with an English monolingual dictionary.

cmavo: go'e (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

A pro-bridi, repeating other bridi. Repeats the penultimate (next to last) main bridi.

Proposed Keywords

  • penultimate bridi

Usage Examples

na go'e doi tomoj .i mi damba la lindar
No, Tomoj. I'm fighting with Lindar.

cmavo: go'i (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

A pro-bridi, repeating other bridi. Repeats the previous main bridi. When used in answer to a yes/no question, it repeats the claim, meaning yes.

Proposed Keywords

  • previous bridi
  • yes

Usage Examples

.y. mi na go'i .i ku'i ru'a lo samtci na ka'e djica
Uh, I don't. But I presume that a computer program isn't able to want.

mi nelci lo nu tavla bau la lojban
I like talking in Lojban.
go'i ra'o
Me too.

cmavo: go'o (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

A pro-bridi, repeating other bridi. Repeats a future main bridi, normally the next one.

Proposed Keywords

  • future bridi

Usage Examples

xu do go'o .i mi tavla fo la .lojban.
Do you? I talk in Lojban.

cmavo: go'u (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

A pro-bridi, repeating other bridi. Repeats an earlier main bridi, normal from quite a while ago.

Proposed Keywords

  • earlier bridi

Usage Examples

mi djuno lo nu do ka'e go'u
I know you're capable of doing that thing somebody said a while ago.

cmavo: mo (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

This pro-bridi is the question marker for selbri. It asks for a selbri to fill in its spot.

Proposed Keywords

  • selbri question

Usage Examples

lo su'u do mo cu cinri mi
What are you doing that is interesting to me?

do mo prenu
What kind of person are you?

cmavo: nago'i (GOhA*)

Proposed Definition

This pro-bridi repeats the last bridi (like {go'i}) while denying it as false. The referent of sumti inherited from the previous bridi are unchanged.

Proposed Keywords

  • NOT previous bridi
  • no

Usage Examples

.i doi .cmen. do plise vau xu
Cmen, are you an apple?
.i .oi na go'i
Argh, no.

xu do merko
Are you American?
na go'i
No.
mi dotco
I'm German.

cmavo: nei (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

This pro-bridi repeats the current bridi. It allows a bridi to be self referential.

Proposed Keywords

  • this bridi

Usage Examples

du'o nai lo mamta be do mi gletu lo jai du'o nai nei
Unbeknownst to your mother, I had sex with someone who was unaware of it.

ko geirgau le tadni poi na nei ke'a
Make those students whom you have not made happy, happy.

Issues

cmavo: no'a (GOhA)

Proposed Definition

This pro-bridi repeats the next outer bridi, the bridi which this bridi is embedded within.

Proposed Keywords

  • outer bridi

Usage Examples

mi gleki lo nu no'a
I'm happy about being happy.

le la turnianskis selru'a be fi la lojban zo'u la lojban kulnu nutli gi'e satci fi'o nafmupli fe'u lo nu ly na no'a
Turniansky's postulate about Lojban: Lojban is culturally neutral and exact, with the exception that Lojban isn't.

Notes


What the second sentence in {mi prami do .i se go'i} mean? Do we even know? - rlpowell - May 2012 — Actually, standard use of {le se go'i} forces it to be just a repeat of the first sentence, so nevermind. - rlpowell

Can bu'a be "na klama"? That makes things pretty fucking weird; {ro bu'a ro da ro de zo'u da bu'a de .i jo nai da na bu'a de} is not actually true, because "da na klama de" and "da na na klama de" are both true. Do note, however, that {da ja'a bu'a de .i jo nai da na bu'a de} fixes it.

No, of course not. "na" is only syntactically part of the selbri; semantically it applies to the whole bridi. --jcowan

But what happens when bu'a == narbroda? --latros

narbroda is a positive selbri: it is true of exactly those tuples that broda is false of. But in any case, the original claim is bogus: "ro da ro de zo'u da na klama de" is true, because it means "naku ro da ro de zo'u da klama de" (it's true that it is not the case that for every x and every y, x goes to y") and "ro da ro de zo'u da na na klama de" is false, because it means "naku naku ro da ro de zo'u da klama de" which in turn means "ro da ro de klama de", and it is not true that every x goes to every y). So the claim of "pretty fucking weird" seems to me to be incorrect. Multiple consecutive {na} in the selbri cancels out; it's only when you say {na go'i} to a bridi containing {na} that the two are assimilated into just one. This is a magic property of go'V cmavo. --jcowan

There is an issue with bu'a, which also extends to selbri in general to a lesser extent. It is essentially not possible to treat selbri as sumti; that is, to consider a predicate as a predicate logic variable. This is especially relevant to bu'a, because we might want to assert the existence of a predicate which satisfies a certain predicate and is also the selbri of a bridi involving certain terbri. An example when this would be warranted is here. The English sentence "For all stratified predicates P, the set {x : P(x)} exists" ostensibly cannot be translated in the same style; that is, it is apparently not possible to assert that a predicate satisfies a relation in the prenex and then use it as the selbri of a bridi. You can say {ro da poi ke'a selbri gi'e ... zo'u}, and you can say {ro bu'a zo'u}, but you cannot do something that does both things.

  • rlpowell's proposed solution appears to be to import {da poi ke'a selbri} from the prenex and then treat that as bu'a, leading to {ro da poi ke'a selbri gi'e multersenta zo'u lo'i bu'a cu zasti}. This seems a bit..."destructive", to me (mi'e latros), since now I am fairly sure that something is horribly wrong with {da bu'a}.
  • My proposed solution is to introduce sumti-to-predicate and predicate-to-sumti cmavo. It may sound like both of these exist, but I am fairly sure they do not. Using, say {me'au}, {me'au ko'a} would be "x1 ko'a x2 x3 ..." where ko'a is a predicate. Then using, say, {me'ei}, {me'ei broda} would be "broda-as-an-abstract-predicate". Then when quantifying over selbri in prenexes, you would use {ro me'ei bu'a}. The previous example then becomes: {ro me'ei bu'a poi ke'a multersenta zo'u lo'i bu'a cu zasti}. This removes the horrible selbri quantification hack, in that {ro bu'a zo'u} would be essentially no different from {ro da zo'u}, except that it would import {lo bu'a} instead of {da}. (It replaces it with another hack, but I would say this one is less bizarre.) In principle {me'ei broda} could be "x1 is broda-as-an-abstract-predicate", but I can't think of how this would ever be used beyond {lo me'ei broda}.


{bu'a} is treated weirdly: it's a selbri normally, but in the prenex it is effectively a sumti. The reason this works is that although {ro bu'a} is syntactically a quantifier+sumti-tail type of description, it is taken to mean "for all P". --jcowan

Impact

History

Advanced
Information Version
Sat 26 of Jul, 2014 19:03 GMT Ilmen from 37.1.170.53 bridi -> main bridi 38
Sat 26 of Jul, 2014 19:02 GMT Ilmen from 37.1.170.53 bridi -> main bridi 37
Sat 26 of Jul, 2014 19:01 GMT Ilmen from 37.1.170.53 36
Sat 26 of Jul, 2014 19:00 GMT Ilmen from 37.1.170.53 bridi -> main bridi 35
Sat 26 of Jul, 2014 18:59 GMT Ilmen from 37.1.170.53 "Repeats the previous _main_ bridi." 34
Sat 14 of Jun, 2014 17:22 GMT mukti from 24.90.95.13 Formatting 33
Tue 10 of Jun, 2014 03:29 GMT mukti from 68.173.146.212 32
Thu 31 of May, 2012 07:53 GMT rlpowell from 173.13.139.233 31
Wed 12 of Jan, 2011 11:06 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 typo in na'o 30
Wed 12 of Jan, 2011 11:04 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 nei and no'a 29
Wed 12 of Jan, 2011 10:48 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 mo and nago'i 28
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 12:12 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 27
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 12:10 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 26
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 12:01 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 25
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 11:37 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 added du examples 24
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 11:25 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 23
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 11:22 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 o yeah, formatting! 22
Sun 09 of Jan, 2011 11:16 GMT RossOgilvie from 220.239.170.184 reformatting 21
Sun 02 of Jan, 2011 06:31 GMT jcowan from 69.195.52.55 20
Sun 02 of Jan, 2011 05:47 GMT jcowan from 69.195.52.55 19
Wed 29 of Dec, 2010 18:11 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 18
Wed 29 of Dec, 2010 18:11 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 17
Wed 29 of Dec, 2010 08:02 GMT lindarthebard from 32.175.23.84 16
Mon 27 of Dec, 2010 01:25 GMT jcowan from 69.195.52.55 15
Fri 24 of Dec, 2010 00:22 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 14
Fri 24 of Dec, 2010 00:01 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 13
Thu 23 of Dec, 2010 21:54 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 12
Thu 23 of Dec, 2010 20:52 GMT latros from 69.255.156.230 Raised issue with bu'a 11
Wed 22 of Dec, 2010 21:08 GMT rlpowell from 173.13.139.233 10
Wed 22 of Dec, 2010 21:05 GMT rlpowell from 173.13.139.233 9
Fri 03 of Dec, 2010 18:39 GMT zort from 70.26.57.190 8
Fri 19 of Nov, 2010 04:09 GMT zort from 70.29.36.10 Various little things. 7
Sun 31 of Oct, 2010 13:18 GMT arj from 178.74.14.177 Fixed some examples and translations of examples 6
Fri 15 of Oct, 2010 04:40 GMT lindarthebard from 32.174.46.157 5
Fri 15 of Oct, 2010 04:10 GMT lindarthebard from 32.174.46.157 4
Wed 13 of Oct, 2010 02:40 GMT lindarthebard from 32.172.115.17 3
Sun 29 of Aug, 2010 19:34 GMT arj from 188.124.129.43 Inserted some examples 2
Wed 17 of Nov, 2004 03:03 GMT rlpowell from 64.81.49.171 1