History: GismuRant

Source of version: 1 (current)

If the original purpose of Lojban is to test the ((Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis)), which is that a language shapes the thoughts of its speakers, and most of the gismu are relations with English-worded definitions, isn't Lojban inevitably just as restrictive as English is as far as vocabulary is concerned? No. The definitions include clarifiers that, for instance, ''salci'' "celebrate" includes funerals. One can attempt to define, say, Japanese words in English, but just because you learn the English definition doesn't mean you truly grasp the nuances of the Japanese word. As, I think, xod also believes, we are in the process of discovering the nuances of the words. The definitions of the words in the gismu list aren't the real meanings of the words, merely that which can be encoded in English. --((Jay Kominek|jay)) ---- Huh? Why? Not that many of the ''gismu'' correspond closely with any English word; they tend to have broader meanings. Dictionary "definitions", including the ''gismu'' definitions, are not mathematical definitions, but more like indications of the typical meanings. The real meanings live in that mushy stuff in people's heads. This is an absolutist argument. If it held in the strong sense, then the only way to create a truly artificial ((conlang)) would be to base it on a theory which could not be described in a natural language at all! Otherwise you could say that, after all, it was only an encoding of its natural language description, and not "artificial" at all. ''mi'e ((jezrax))'' --But there is indeed a sense in which this is a valid concern. If a person only learns ''((gismu))'' by the keyword and not by the ''((sumti))'', they will become an un-''((lobykai))'' user of Lojban, and their ''jbosku'' will tend to resemble encoded English. All of us, in truth, start that way. But after you have begun to learn to distinguish ''gismu'' with similar- meaning English keywords, their true meanings will more and more influence your usage. This is not, however, an especially ((Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis|Whorfish)) effect--yet. That will only occur when you are ''((bellyfeel|perceiving))'' in terms of those relationships...