History: Internal grammar of tags

Source of version: 5

__Grammar simplification proposal__, by ((xorxes)) !!Current grammar: simple-tense-modal = (Was Footnote: NAhE) (Was Footnote: SE) BAI (Was Footnote: NAI) (Was Footnote: KI) | (Was Footnote: NAhE) (time (Was Footnote: space) | space (Was Footnote: time)) & CAhA (Was Footnote: KI) | KI | CUhE time = ZI & time-offset ... & ZEhA (Was Footnote: PU (([NAI))) & interval-property ... time-offset = PU (Was Footnote: NAI) (Was Footnote: ZI) space = VA & space-offset ... & space-interval & (MOhI space-offset) space-offset = FAhA (Was Footnote: NAI) (Was Footnote: VA) space-interval = ((VEhA & VIhA) (Was Footnote: FAhA (([NAI)))) & space-int-props space-int-props = (FEhE interval-property) ... interval-property = number ROI (Was Footnote: NAI) | TAhE (Was Footnote: NAI) | ZAhO (Was Footnote: NAI) !!Proposed grammar: simple-tense-modal = ((Was Footnote: NAhE) (Was Footnote: SE) tag-unit (Was Footnote: NAI)) ... tag-unit = BAI | CAhA | CUhE | KI | ZI | PU | VA | (Was Footnote: MOhI) FAhA | ZEhA | VEhA | VIhA | (Was Footnote: FEhE) number ROI | (Was Footnote: FEhE) TAhE | (Was Footnote: FEhE) ZAhO !!Rationale: !SE-conversion Every tag-unit can be used as a tag, and therefore as a connective. It is arbitrary and inconvenient that SE is currently disallowed with some tags. !NAhE That {NAhE PU}, {NAhE CAhA} and {NAhE PU CAhA} are all allowed, but {NAhE PU NAhE CAhA} is disallowed is arbitrary and inconvenient. Similarly for other combinations. !Order of units {co'a no'a broda} "starting to typically broda" is allowed, but {no'a co'a broda} "typically starting to broda" is not. It will be accepted by the parser, but parsed as {no'aku co'a broda}. Similarly for all other order restrictions. Note: arbitrary combinations of tag-units are already allowed in selbri-tags as long as there is an intervening {ja'a}, for example: {no'a ja'a co'a broda} is allowed, without ku's. *Here & below, {no'a} > {na'o}. [And] !NAI There's no good reason to allow it selectively here and there instead of everywhere. !Backwards compatibility Fully compatible. Everything currently grammatical remains grammatical. -------------------- __Note:__ In the original proposal I had kept PU (Was Footnote: ZI), FAhA (Was Footnote: VA), ZEhA (Was Footnote: PU), VEhA (Was Footnote: FAhA) and VIhA (Was Footnote: FAhA) as separate forms because I thought their compound meaning might follow special compositional rules. I don't think that is the case, though. Just as the Imaginary Journey composition follows the ordinary left-to-right scope rule, these componds follow the rule too. For example {ze'u pu} indicates a long duration of an event in the past of some reference point, where the event is in the past for the whole duration. -------------------- (comments) And's: SE: Absolutely, yes. NAhE: Yes. Order: Is {lo no'a(ku) co'a broda} grammatical? If not, then that is an argument in favour of your proposal. If it is grammatical, then I think it would be better if all selbri tags were instead sumti tags, since otherwise we have a syntactic distinction with no semantic import. *{lo no'aku co'a broda} is not grammatical. {lo no'a ja'a co'a broda} is grammatical. But having to remember for which combinations you need to insert ja'a is absurd. **OK, then. I am in favour. NAI: Certainly the status quo seems arbitrary. But IMO NAI is a Bad Thing when it contributes to logical form, because it doesn't follow the usual scope rules. Allowing NAI everywhere is probably better than allowing it arbitrarily, but better would be to disallow it everywhere except for places where na can't do the job. *NAI only affects the meaning of the previous word. For example {ru'inai} means "intermittently". It follows the usual scope rule for UIs, the scope is always the previous word. If you prefer, the complex word+nai is a new word with a new meaning. The new meaning is not strictly compositional, but it is usually easy to guess. **So it functions like NAhE, then? I agree the status quo is an ugly mess, but the risk of fixing it by allowing NAI anywhere is that we end up with a semantic mess. Are we (BF) really going to say for every cmavo what it means when followed by NAI? Or is it like a tanru, dependent on glorking? ***I will restrict it, for the purposes of this proposal, to words in tags. NAI is already allowed after most of them anyway, so we already have to do that.

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Information	Version
Tue 28 of Jun, 2011 20:55 GMT latros from 98.218.154.210	21		Actions View Source
Thu 05 of Jan, 2006 18:50 GMT xorxes from 200.49.74.2	20		Actions View Source
Fri 16 of Jul, 2004 15:59 GMT xorxes from 200.49.74.2	19		Actions View Source
Mon 22 of Sep, 2003 22:14 GMT 200.49.74.2 from 200.49.74.2 updated by the phpwiki import process	18		Actions View Source
Mon 22 of Sep, 2003 20:51 GMT xorxes from 200.49.74.2	17		Actions View Source
Mon 22 of Sep, 2003 19:52 GMT 200.49.74.2 from 200.49.74.2 updated by the phpwiki import process	11 - 16		Actions View Source
Mon 22 of Sep, 2003 13:51 GMT xorxes from 200.49.74.2	8 - 10		Actions View Source
Sun 21 of Sep, 2003 23:37 GMT admin from 64.81.49.216	6 - 7		Actions View Source
Sun 21 of Sep, 2003 22:47 GMT And from 81.7.54.101 typo noted but not corrctd	5		Actions View Source
Fri 19 of Sep, 2003 19:13 GMT 200.49.74.2 from 200.49.74.2 created from phpwiki import	2		Actions View Source

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