History: Misleading gismu keywords

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Some commonly encountered (please keep the list in alphabetical order): *__botpi__ "bottle"is a container, but it is not necessarily a bottle. ''this is hotly debated, of course.'' *__carvi__ "rain" -- includes snow, sleet, hail, etc. *__cfari__ "initiates" --"commences" *__cinmo__ "emotion" x1 is not the emotion but the one that feels the emotion. Possible replacements: ''emote'' *__clika__ "mossy" -- "lichen" *__cnemu__ "reward" --"awards" *__cortu__ "pain" --that which "hurts" *__cradi__ "radio" Same as for {tivni}, but I don't know a better keyword. *__danre__ "pressure" --"presses" *__darsi__ "audacity" Possible replacements: ''audacious'' *__dunku__ "anguished" Possible replacements: ''anguished'', ''distressed'' *__jgira__ "pride" --is "proud" *__jgita__ "guitar" is any stringed musical instrument, not necessarily a guitar; in particular, the violin family is included. ("One has no frets." --((Douglas Hofstadter))) *__mipri__ "secret" --the "concealer" *__mledi__ "mold" --"fungus" *__nanmu__ "man" -- not necessarily adult. "male"? *__natfe__ "deny" -- contradict; x1 (''du'u'') contradicts x2 (''du'u'') *__ninmu__ "woman" -- not necessarily adult. "female"? *__senva__ "dream" --the "dreamer" *__skina__ "cinema" I don't know any dialect of English in which ''cinema'' refers to the motion picture, and not the place for showing motion pictures. Possible replacements: ''movie'', ''motion picture'' *__skoto__ "Scottish" --"Celtic" *__slabu__ "old" --"familiar" *__tabra__ "trumpet" is all brass instruments. *__talsa__ "challenge" (I can't make any sense of the definition) *__tivni__ "television" is neither the receiver or the medium, but the entity that broadcasts it. Possible replacements: ''televise'' *__vofli__ "flight" --"flies" ---- All of the gismu which have an emotion instead of an emoter as a keyword, are very obviously in error. For example, for __ckeji__ we have "ashamed", not "shame". --mi'e ((tsali)) They are important because until one has used ''gismu'' a great deal, the tendency is to rely on memorizing ''gismu''-English keyword equivalences. Eventually, of course, people will learn Lojban from talking with fluent Lojbanists, but at this point it is a frequent source of errors & confusion. *Inasmuch as the fluent Lojbanists are unlikely to land here from another planet, this means a nasty bootstrapping problem (how does the correct sense get acquired, particularly if the place structure doesn't help --- e.g. ''senva''?) The problem will get resolved only through further debate (*sigh*) and documentation. (The nature of such documentation, of course, is a ((hardliners))/naturalists sticking point.) ''But I, as an alleged hardliner, agree that naturalist-like explanations (ie. illustrative examples) are a lot better than nothing, and in many if not all cases, enough. -- nitcion.'' The examples should be pulled from actual usage, preferably in larger works or conversation, rather than a cabal of geniuses sitting around a table and scribbing example sentences. --xod ''"Actual usage" gave us ''le ka mi prami'', too; that hasn't stopped it being rejected. And the minute anyone uses a ((gismu)) controversially, ten other Lojbanists say "no, you can't do that." (And rightly so, I contend; after all, you too have done it.) So I'd like to modify this to "pulled from actual usage, where the particular instance of usage has not drawn fire."'' ''That said, I agree that the dictionary should have examples drawn from things like extant text and IRC logs, where available. But not all semantic distinctions and fine print will be resolved by extant usage --- nor for that matter have all gismu been used in extant usage. So it is legitimate to ''supplement'' those examples with examples devised by a cabal.'' -- nitcion.

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Mon 06 of Jul, 2009 22:35 GMT donri from 83.191.227.4	9		Actions View Source
Mon 06 of Jul, 2009 22:34 GMT donri from 83.191.227.4	8		Actions View Source
Mon 06 of Jul, 2009 22:32 GMT donri from 83.191.227.4 pinji	7		Actions View Source
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Fri 30 of Nov, 2001 12:31 GMT admin from admin created from phpwiki import	1		Actions View Source

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