History: Names of Languages

Source of version: 8 (current)

Names of languages in Lojban have three forms: *a gismu, type=4 fu'ivla, or sometimes lujvo with the place structure ''x1 is fooish in aspect x2'', which can also be used for culture or nationality, depending on the language *a lujvo in ''-bau'' or type-3 fu'ivla with the place structure ''x1 is the fooish language used by x2 to express x3'' *a cmene. !!!Indo-European *Germanic **English ***glico ***glibau ***gliban ***bangrglici **Scots **Frisian ***bangrfrizi **Dutch ***bangrnederlanda **Afrikaans **German ***dotco ***dotybau ***dotyban **Yiddish ***brodo'o ''(this might sound depreciatory: "Judendeutsch")'' ***iidic **Danish ***bangrdanska **Swedish **Norwegian **Faroese **Icelandic *Celtic **Gaelic (''is this Irish or Scottish Gaelic?'') ***skoto (''it's funny having this gismu but none for Irish!'') ***ga'elo (?) ''that breaks into ga'e lo'' '''No. ga'elo is ga'Elo, while ga'e lo is gA'elo or gA'elO, so it is ok.''' ''It is not OK. A brivla must have two adjacent consonants, which this doesn't. And ga'e lo can be stressed ga'E lo.'' ***gailge ***goidle (''Goidelic'') ***bangrxeire ***gailban **Cymru ***kemru, kemro ***kemrybau ***kemruban, kemryban **** Is it worth noting that Welsh "Cymru" is pronounced pretty much like Lojban __kymri__ and not __kemri__ or anything ending in __u__? ''You can't have __y__ in gismu, and all cultural gismu end with __o__, so it should be __kemro__.'' OK, then it should at least be ''kimro'', since the Welsh __y__ also has a "clear" sound like Lojban __i__. ***** Welsh has three separate phonemes involved here: y, i, and u. I is an unrounded lojban i. U is a rounded i (except in some southern dialects, where it has merged with i). Y varies; it is a lojban y in some monosyllabic words and in all non-final syllables, but elsewhere it is identical to u. Lojban only having five vowels for us to use where welsh has 7 (a,e,i,o,u,w,y), we are forced to merge some. We must merge u and i, because i is the lojban vowel that can be pronounced as a welsh u, while our u is taken (by welsh w). We then must merge y with something. If we merge it with i/u, then we get three mergers (i/u, i/y, and u/y). If we merge it with something else (call it *), we only get two mergers (i/u, y/*). This is clearly preferable. As for what * should be, I would vote for a, as it is the only low vowel we can choose. If the y were in a final syllable, where it is not distinct from u even in welsh, I would vote for using i. But, as a neogism, I would vote for kamro (rather than kamri because all other cultural gismu end with o). However, as a name, kymraig or kymra,eg is probably best. By the way, I am not just talking off the top of my head - what I say here (except for the roundedness of u, which is mentioned elsewhere but is not true of the southern welsh dialects) is backed up by the Welsh Studies Institute in North America, one of the leading authorities on this issue. see [http://www.madog.org] for more detail about the funky welsh language. - mi'e kreig.daniyl. ******You're absolutely right. Although I proposed _kemru/kemro_ myself (because of its gismu-structure), I don't like it any longer for its derivation from _Cymru_ (Cymru ((f.)) - (prop. n.) Wales!!). The language is _cymraeg_ - pronounced pretty like the lojban form _kymraig_ below. (_cymreig_ adj. stands for pertaining to welshness) -- mi'e .aulun. ***kymraig **Breton ***bre'one *Italic **Latin ***latmo ***la'orbau ***la'orban **Portuguese ***porto ***potybau ***potyban **Spanish ***spano ***sanbau ***sanban **Catalan ***katlana ***bangrkatalana ***katalan ''invalid cmene'' ***bangrvalenciana **French ***fraso ***fasybau ***fasyban **Italian ***talno ***talnybau ***talnyban **Rumanian *Greek ***xelso ***xesybau ***xesyban *Slavic **Russian ***rusko ***rukybau ***rukyban **Ukrainian ***vukro **Old Church Slavonic ***dzeru'o ***dzeru'obau ***dzeruk *Indic **Hindi ***xindo ***xinbau ***xinban **Urdu ***xurdo ***xurbau ***xurban **Sanskrit ***srito ***sritybau ***srityban **Romani ***tsingaro ''Why on earth take it from Italian ("zingaro") and not from Romanian ("tigan") or Hungarian ("cig�ny") which is more common and typical? -> {tsigano}'' ''ok with me'' ***bangnromani ***romanes !!!Finno-Ugric *Hungarian **magjaro (''madjaro'' breaks up) - ''accepted!'' **bangrmagiaro **madjar !!!Basque *Basque **skalduna !!!Afro-Asiatic *Arabic **xrabo **rabybau **rabyban *Hebrew **xebro **brobau **broban !!!Austronesian *Malayo-Polynesian **Malay and Indonesian ***baxso ***baxsybau ***baxsyban **Polynesian ***Niuean ****bangrniu,e *Japanese **ponjo **po'orbau (ponbau) **po'orban (ponban) !!!Sino-Tibetan *Chinese **jungo **jugbau **jugban !!!South Caucasian *Georgian **kartuli **bangrkartuli !!!Artificial *Loglan offshoots **TLI Loglan ***loglo ***dzelojbo ***purjbo ***loglan **Lojban ***lojbo ***jbobau ***lojban **((Gua\spi)) ***gu'aispi ''this is not a valid word as there are too many vowels before the first consonant pair'' '''Ok then, guaspi - which isn't a lujvo as ''ua'' cannot appear in rafsi, or at least doesn't. Or we could just give up on those crappy ((type 4 fu'ivla))...''' ***bangrguaspi ***guasp **Ceqli ***tcenlis *((Esperanto)) **spero **bangrsperanto, bangrxesperanto **esperanton *Laadan **bangrladanu, banrla,adanu **ladan ''not valid'', ledan, LE,adan *((Klingon)) **bangrtlenanu **bangrtlingana **tlinan *((Ro)) **bangnro *((Solresol)) **solresol **bangrsolresolo **solresolo **zgibau **zgiban *((Sona)) **son **bangrsona **djunu'i !!!Signal *ASL **merxanbau **mersniban For programming languages, see ((Names of Computer Languages)).