History: SE + x2-less brivla

Source of version: 1 (current)

If 'broda' has only an x1 and no x2, what does ''se broda'' mean? * se broda just means that there has been a reordering of places. If something fills the x1 of se broda, there is a big semantical problem. ((greg.|I)) used se broda in ((se zasti lo ninmu poi cisma)). I thought when I wrote it that zasti had only an x1, but I still feel that the sentence was correct in my original intension. Just like I believe {se blanu ta} is an equally correct form of {ta blanu} ** This makes sense, but you could also have said ''zasti fa'', so although the proposed convention would invalidate your usage, it wouldn't deny you the ability to postpose x1. --((And)) ((And|I)) propose that it denote a predicate that is semantically related to 'broda' but has an x2. The meaning would be tanru-like in that it would be established from context, but ''selbroda'' would have a fixed meaning that, once established, could be listed in a dictionary. *I believe that ''selbroda'' could mean something, but I would not expect to have to find a meaning for ''ta se broda'' I further propose that ''broda fe ko'a'' work similarly, where 'broda' lacks an x2. Needless to say, ''te broda'' would force reconstrual as a 3-place predicate, ''xe broda'' as a 5-place, and so forth. * Blah. Overcomplex. If you stick something in a non-existant place, expect to get well deserved blank stares. ** If you use ''za'e'' first, at least your hearers will know some monkey business is afoot. * An example from usage: ((da pu laldo ninmu co tunlo le sfani)) * What prompted this proposal was Jorge's preference for ''se ka'' over ''((poi'i))''. Adding an x2 to ordinary ''ka'' would be a Bad Thing, unless x2-less ''ka'' were replaced by ''du'u''. --((And)) ** ''x2-less ka is du'u, assuming there are su'o zo ce'u. The suggested ka2 was for something that can fit in the single ce'u of the ka bridi. (I don't believe it was ever defined for ka with multiple ce'u.) It's not really that useful except to ease the transition of those who liked the idea of ka without any ce'u, into the modern, purified usage. --((xod))'' ** Yes: on the semantic equivalence of ''ka'' and ''du'u'' but the interpretive distinction, see ((ka, du'u, si'o, ce'u, zo'e)), which was a summary of the consensus we (including you) reached. I don't remember the ka2 you're talking about, but I think it is different from the ''se ka'' that would replace ''((poi'i))'', since this ''se ka'' is just ordinary ''ka'' with an added place for the thing that has the property: "ko'a se ka ce'u broda" = "ko'a se ckaji lo'e ka ce'u broda". --((And))