History: all places equally important gotcha

All places of every bridi are equally important to the meaning. Thus, since botpi means x1 is a bottle for x2 made of x3 with lid x4, anything without a lid is not a botpi. Likewise, both sivni and nalsivni mean hidden/secret:

sivni

x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2

nalsivni

x1 is hidden/secret, and not known to x2

Or to put it otherwise:

sivni

x2 is a bearer of secret x1

nalsivni

x2 is not a bearer of secret x1

• Something is being lost in the English translation here. While nalsivni could be defined that way, it need not be. If not, then you need to use a different English rendering:

nalsivni

x1 is an idea which is not hidden/secret to x2 (but may be hidden/secret to someone else)

or in the other order

nalsivni

x2 is not knowledgeable about x1 (which may or may not be a secret to someone else)

So, in lojban, a cat cannot exist unless it is of a specific breed?

• Not exactly. But a cat can only be in relationship mlatu with a breed, it can't be in that relationship with something that is not a breed. A cat that is not in relationship mlatu with a breed does not mlatu, but it could still zasti, why not?

• All cats belong to some breed. If it isn't la merko torkre or la manin (Manx), perhaps it is la mongrel.

sivni

x1, x2 such that their relationship is: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2

nalsivni

x1, x2 such that their relationship is other than: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2

tolsivni

x1, x2 such that their relationship is the opposite of: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2

The exact meanings of nal- and tol- for a specific case cannot be any more clearly defined without discussing the specific meaning of the concept. For some concepts, nal- may be meaningless (or context-dependent); for others, tol- may be. --xod

The gismu list explicitly states "excluded/in the dark (= nalselsivni)", and it's hard to imagine what else "na'e sivni" might mean relevantly.

zo zi'o mo i

So a general-purpose bottle (i.e that wasn't made for a specific sebotpi) and has lost its lid isn't a botpi. Fungus spores that haven't attached yet aren't mledi. A mruli that's not in current use isn't a mruli. I can't get behind this. If you were to say, however, that all places where equally iun/iimportant, however, I'd be right there. Using lo velbo'i for a found bottletop on a beach (who's bottle is long broken).