History: all places equally important gotcha

Source of version: 4

All places of every bridi are equally important to the meaning. Thus, since ''botpi'' means ''x1 is a bottle for x2 made of x3 with lid x4'', anything without a lid is not a botpi. Likewise, both ''sivni'' and ''nalsivni'' mean ''hidden/secret'': ;sivni: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2 ;nalsivni: x1 is hidden/secret, and not known to x2 Or to put it otherwise: ;sivni: x2 is a bearer of secret x1 ;nalsivni: x2 is not a bearer of secret x1 *Something is being lost in the English translation here. While nalsivni could be defined that way, it need not be. If not, then you need to use a different English rendering: ;nalsivni: x1 is an idea which is not hidden/secret to x2 (but may be hidden/secret to someone else) or in the other order ;nalsivni: x2 is not knowledgeable about x1 (which may or may not be a secret to someone else) ''So, in lojban, a cat cannot exist unless it is of a specific breed?'' *Not exactly. But a cat can only be in relationship ''mlatu'' with a breed, it can't be in that relationship with something that is not a breed. A cat that is not in relationship ''mlatu'' with a breed does not mlatu, but it could still ''zasti'', why not? **All cats belong to some breed. If it isn't ''la merko torkre'' or ''la manin'' (Manx), perhaps it is ''la mongrel''. ---- ;sivni: x1, x2 such that their relationship is: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2 ;nalsivni: x1, x2 such that their relationship is other than: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2 ;tolsivni: x1, x2 such that their relationship is the opposite of: x1 is hidden/secret, and known only to x2 The exact meanings of nal- and tol- for a specific case cannot be any more clearly defined without discussing the specific meaning of the concept. For some concepts, nal- may be meaningless (or context-dependent); for others, tol- may be. --xod ''The gismu list explicitly states "excluded/in the dark (= nalselsivni)", and it's hard to imagine what else "na'e sivni" might mean relevantly.'' zo zi'o mo i So a general-purpose bottle (i.e that wasn't made for a specific sebotpi) and has lost its lid isn't a botpi. Fungus spores that haven't attached yet aren't mledi. A mruli that's not in current use isn't a mruli. I can't get behind this. If you were to say, however, that all places where equally [i]un[/i]important, however, I'd be right there. Using lo velbo'i for a found bottletop on a beach (who's bottle is long broken).

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Thu 22 of Oct, 2009 18:33 GMT snan from 83.251.93.136	8
Tue 07 of Jul, 2009 15:17 GMT mungojelly from 75.68.165.26	7
Tue 07 of Jul, 2009 15:13 GMT mungojelly from 75.68.165.26	6
Tue 07 of Jul, 2009 00:21 GMT snan from 83.251.197.19	5
Sat 02 of May, 2009 10:16 GMT snan from 83.251.203.163	4
Tue 28 of Apr, 2009 09:38 GMT snan from 83.251.203.163	3
Tue 28 of Apr, 2009 09:31 GMT snan from 83.251.203.163	2
Fri 30 of Nov, 2001 12:31 GMT admin from admin created from phpwiki import	1

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