History: discussion of kacma fi noda

Source of version: 1 (current)

Extracted from ((camera obscura)). That should be ''kacma fi zi'o''; anything (such as a tree) which has nothing to record images on ''kacma fi noda''. --((Pierre Abbat|phma)) * ''kacma fi zi'o'' is good (I almost chose it); it means something like "camera for which any recording medium is irrelevant," which is true for a camera obscura. ''kacma fi noda'' means something like "camera which does not record on any medium," which I think is also good. I don't accept that ''lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda''. A ''((gismu))'' is not defined by its places only, but by its entire definition. Both ''kacma fi zi'o'' and ''kacma fi noda'' rely on the listener accepting that a camera obscura is just like a familiar photographic ''kacma'' except for an unusual treatment of the x3 place; I think both suggested unusual treatments work. ''mi'e ((jezrax))'' ** phma is right. A ''kacma be fi noda'' is not ''lo kacma'', just as a ''dunda be noda'' is not ''lo dunda''. So it doesn't make much sense to insist that a ''kacma be fi ((noda))'' should still be something we consider a camera. *** Reference, please. ''mi'e ((jezrax))'' **** Do you accept ''lo'e tricu na kacma fi da''? It means exactly the same as ''lo'e tricu cu kacma fi noda''. --((xorxes)) ***** What you choose to consider a "camera" is your own problem. pe'i la jezrax cu prije jimpe .i mi'e ((xod)) ***** Of course. When I say ''lo'e tricu cu kamca fi noda'', I'm saying that a tree is __not__ a camera. --((xorxes)) ** Another way to say it is ''kacma fi lo nomei'', which means that it is a camera but its recording medium is nothing. A camera with film ''kacma fi zi'o gi'enai kacma fi lo nomei''. --((Pierre Abbat|phma)) *** Right. It is important to keep the meanings of ''noda'' and ''lo nomei'' appart. They're two significantly different "nothings". --((xorxes)) ''ki'e rodo'' for the fascinating discussion. As usual, I learn more from posting my errors than from what I get right! ''mi'e ((jezrax))''