History: the Upsidedown Gismu Syndrome

Source of version: 1 (current)

There's words for 'young' ''citno'' & 'new' ''cnino'', but you have to say
'opposite-of-young' ''tolcitno'' instead of 'old'. Some prefer ''claranji''
'long-continuing' or ''clare'i'' ('long-surviving').

''This "upsidedown syndrome" was one of the Lojban features I first ran into, calling it "counter world". This seems really strange with regard to this language's pretension! May I suggest to call Lojban "Heyoka" instead ;-) --.aulun.''

Other instances:

*'Find' = 'Un-lose' ''tolcri''.
** '' stufa'i ! ''
*** zo tolcri zo'u ko'a to'e cirko ko'e ko'i
*** zo stufa'i zo'u ko'a facki le du'u makau stuzi ko'e kei ko'e
*'Ugly' = 'Un-beautiful' ''tolmelbi'' (''xrukykai'' has been suggested; also the Esperanto word ''turpa''--but as yet we have no ''cmavo'' for ((Esperanto-shift))!). ''Do vi kredigus ke ankaux la vorton turpa bovenigas esperantistoj?! Ne cxi tiu!''
** '' .i pe'i le namcu be le se bangrnesperanto poi ji'e lojbo cu banzu leka le cecmu na pante -- nitcion.''
*'Clever' = 'Un-clumsy' ''toljuxre''.
** ''How is this not ''certu''?'' (Innate, not learned.)
*'Smart' = 'Un-foolish' ''tolbebna'' (No, ''prije'' is the opposite of ''bebna''.)
*'Say goodbye' = 'Un-greet' ''tolrinsa''.
** '' Isn't goodbye a kind of greeting? ''
** Not according to the gi'uste
*'Appear' = 'Un-disappear' ''tolcanci''.
** '' co'a se viska ''
*'Arrive' = 'Un-leave' ''tolcliva''.
** '' mo'u klama '' "mo'u klama" and "tolcliva" have different ((place structure))s. You always mo'u klama fi da, whereas there's no place for the origin in "tolcliva". Also, you can do things like "co'a tolcliva", which is different from "co'a mo'u klama".
*'bless' = 'un-curse' ''toldapma''.
** ''te zabna'' or ''zanru''
** I've used ''cesto'erdapma'' (ugh); (''cesto'erdapma'' is ''ce sto'erdapma'' where the last part is a fu'ivla. The correct lujvo form is ''cesto'edapma''. ''Isn't '''sto'erdapma''' a ((slinku'i)) if '''cesto'erdapma''' is a lujvo, even if it is not the preferred form?''It would be a slinku'i if ''cesto'erdapma'' were a lujvo, but it is not a lujvo (not even a dispreferred form) so ''sto'erdapma'' is a valid fu'ivla. The r-glue is not optional: either it has to be there, or it can't be there.) I've recently been told that ''dapma'' is not necessarily negative: just "dooming with a word."  So ''zandapma'' would thus be fine for "bless".  I could live with that.
*'function' = 'un-broken' ''tolspofu''. Or, in other sense, ''tolcando''.
**''tolcando'': x1 is active/in motion/in action/operating/running/"on";
**''tolspofu'': x1 functions/works/is in operating condition to do x2; (it could be "on"/"off", ''tolcando'' / ''cando'' or maybe better: ''cikna'' / ''cando'')
**''The definition of {spofu} i.e. "broken" '''not''' meaning "physically" broken/gone to pieces is indeed "built-in malglico"! I can't stand this definition! --.aulun.''
***There is already ''porpi'' for "break into pieces", there is no point in having two words for the same concept, and the concept of function/malfunction is very necessary. If the word "broken" bothers you for this concept, just take it as a(nother) bad keyword. --((xorxes))
***''You are correct! Now I see, it's the English keyword that keeps me knocking, not the gismu itself! (although the English root might have given it - highly subjective for me! - a flavour always evoking the idea of "break into pieces"!). What Spanish/Esperanto keyword did you give it?'' --.aulun.
****In Esperanto I used "nefunkcianta". In Spanish I used "roto", which just means "broken". Perhaps I should change it for clarity, though in Spanish "roto" can mean "not functioning" too.
****''Yes, I think you should, since i imagine that the meaning first of all might be "gone to pieces" (maybe like in Italian "la macchina è rotta" or Rumanian "masina s-a rupt").'' --.aulun.
*'boring' = 'un-amusing' ''tolzdi''
*'offensive' = 'un-funny' ''tolxajmi''
**I disagree.  ''tolxajmi'' is not 'offensive', but 'boring'. --((tsali))
*'cheap' = 'un-costly' ''tolkargu''
*'buy' = 'be sold to' ''te vecnu''
*'domesticated'= 'un-wild' ''tolcilce''

There are others.

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I condone uprooting [http://www.lojban.org/files/wordlists/oldlog.txt|old Loglan gismu] to alleviate the problem.  Thus, we revive, for instance ((laldo)) (=tolcitno).  --mi'e ((tsali))
''(Don't forget to bracket it with ''((xo'a))'' & ''((hoa))''!)'' Why?  As long as they can't be mistaken as official Lojban gismu, I see no problem with importing them as they are. -- mi'e ((tsali))


''.iseni'ibo .aucai pilno '''ko'a''' goi le citno rafsi le krati be zo xo'a .i da'i zo xon .i seni'ibo lu xonlaldo li'u''

i pe'i na nitcu lo rafsi i zoi zoi lald zoi e zoi zoi laldo zoi cu rafsi zo ((laldo))

''.i tugni .i ku'i mi ba'o casnu zo laldo na.e zo xo'a .i ta'onai do'anai kakne le zu'o lujvo finti kei le za'i ko'a zasti .i ta'o ma'a co'a cpacu le gismu be zoi gy. billiards .gy''

.i ''((loglo fu'ivla))''

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.i mi jinvi ledu'u le di'e re seljinvi cu fapro le bangu vau pe'isai .i le gi'uste ca mulno gi'e ca na ka'e nalckape cebna .i na mulno fa loi drata -- mi'e ((nitcion))

i pe'i le ((gimste)) cu mleca le banzu i ku'i lei dukti valsi cu milxe po'o le ka vajni -- mi'e ((adam))

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i pe'i su'o valsi pe zo to'e cu cizra gi'eku'i traji le ka lojbo i mu'a
mi mutce le ka zmanei zo tolcri zo stufa'i ''--mi'e ((xorxes))''

i lo'e valsi pe zo to'e zo'u le ni ((spero)) cu zmadu le ni lojbo -- mi'e ((adam))

.i le bangrnesperanto cu se simsa la lojban. leka se mukti lenu le'i ce'u gismu cu cmalu .i leka la esperanton. se simsa la lojban. mi na nabmi li'a zo'o -- mi'e nitcion
History: the Upsidedown Gismu Syndrome

Source of version: 1 (current)

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