Lojban In General

There was just a discussion on IRC about reversing circumcision. I quoted 1
Cor. 7:18 from memory (getting one letter wrong), then translated it into
Lojban for the benefit of na'ebo la nitcion., but got totally messed up
trying to say "called". Any suggestions? The only sense I know how to
say "called" in is te cmene.

Pierre

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On 11/2/08, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> There was just a discussion on IRC about reversing circumcision.
> I quoted 1 Cor. 7:18 from memory (getting one letter wrong), then
> translated it into Lojban for the benefit of na'ebo la nitcion.,
> but got totally messed up trying to say "called". Any suggestions?
> The only sense I know how to say "called" in is te cmene.

This remembers me about another good point: 1 Cor. 7:23

"Ye were bought with a price"

Obvious translation is:

{do se vecnu fo lo jdima}

But this can be translated back also as:

"You were sold with a price"

Quite different for a native natlanger!

--
http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
<cyril@slobin.pp.ru> `it means just what I choose it to mean'

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On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> There was just a discussion on IRC about reversing circumcision. I quoted 1
> Cor. 7:18 from memory (getting one letter wrong), then translated it into
> Lojban for the benefit of na'ebo la nitcion., but got totally messed up
> trying to say "called". Any suggestions? The only sense I know how to
> say "called" in is te cmene.

I think "call" in the sense of "summon" could be
"klagau"/"klacpe"/"klami'e", depending on the circumstances.

klagau "x1 makes x2 go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means x6"
klami'e "x1 commands x2 to go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means (of going) x6"
klacpe "x1 asks x2 to go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means (of going) x6
in manner (of asking) x7"

All three could be "x1 calls x2 to x3 ..."

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Cyril Slobin <cyril@slobin.pp.ru> wrote:
>
> This remembers me about another good point: 1 Cor. 7:23
>
> "Ye were bought with a price"
>
> Obvious translation is:
>
> {do se vecnu fo lo jdima}
>
> But this can be translated back also as:
>
> "You were sold with a price"
>
> Quite different for a native natlanger!

It seems that the difference is whether the focus is on the buyer or the seller:
"You were bought with a price":"Someone bought you with a price"
"You were sold with a price":"Someone sold you with a pice"

So in Lojban one could perhaps say:

do se vecnu da fo lo jdima
You were sold by someone for a price

do se vecnu fi da fo lo jdima
You were bought by someone for a price

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 09:25, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

>> There was just a discussion on IRC about reversing circumcision. I quoted 1
>> Cor. 7:18 from memory (getting one letter wrong), then translated it into
>> Lojban for the benefit of na'ebo la nitcion., but got totally messed up
>> trying to say "called". Any suggestions? The only sense I know how to
>> say "called" in is te cmene.
>
> I think "call" in the sense of "summon" could be
> "klagau"/"klacpe"/"klami'e", depending on the circumstances.
>
> klagau "x1 makes x2 go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means x6"
> klami'e "x1 commands x2 to go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means (of going) x6"
> klacpe "x1 asks x2 to go to x3 from x4 via x5 by means (of going) x6
> in manner (of asking) x7"

If this is the new testament "called to service" sense of "called", I
think there might be a hint of destiny in the meaning. Not sure how
that would affect the lujvo.

Chris Capel
--
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)

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On Sunday 02 November 2008 12:04:24 Chris Capel wrote:
> If this is the new testament "called to service" sense of "called", I
> think there might be a hint of destiny in the meaning. Not sure how
> that would affect the lujvo.

If it means "call to service", it should be "sefcpe" or "sefmi'e". And if it
means "call to come", I ask someone to go to me, which "klacpe" doesn't
imply. Then there's a telephone call, which is something else entirely.

Pierre

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