Lojban In General

Posted by rlpowell on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 22:41 GMT posts: 14214

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 03:20:35PM -0700, Xitron wrote:
>
> 2 vowels I'm missing
>
> I'm a beginner, and am seeking info I've not found in the documentation I've read thus far.
>
> The sound for the short 'i', such as in 'hick'
>
> The sound for the short 'a', such as in 'hat'
>
> Have those been discarded entirely?

Yes.

> If so, what vowel sound is generally substituted?

Lojban e and a, respectively.

-Robin

--
Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

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Posted by seryf on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 22:47 GMT posts: 71

the short i can often be inserted phonetically (id est, when spoken, but not written) into words that are unusual for english speakers for ease of expression, turning zdani into z(short i sound)dani, or zidani. that helps for those strange consonant clusters, but otherwise doesnt exist in lojban. sadly no short a sound, making those with names that use it, the short i, or the th sound use substitution or make a new name instead ( like i did).

-seryf

---Original Message---
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 4:38 pm
Subject: lojban Re: 2 vowels I'm missing

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 03:20:35PM -0700, Xitron wrote:
>
> 2 vowels I'm missing
>
> I'm a beginner, and am seeking info I've not found in the documentation I've
read thus far.
>
> The sound for the short 'i', such as in 'hick'
>
> The sound for the short 'a', such as in 'hat'
>
> Have those been discarded entirely?

Yes.

> If so, what vowel sound is generally substituted?

Lojban e and a, respectively.

-Robin

--
Lojban Reason #17: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by Xitron on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 22:53 GMT posts: 3

>
> I'm a beginner, and am seeking info I've not found in the documentation I've read thus far.
>
> The sound for the short 'i', such as in 'brick'
>
> The sound for the short 'a', such as in 'hat'
>
> Have those been discarded entirely? If so, what vowel sound is generally substituted?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Unca Xitron

So my handle, Unca Xitron (which uses a short i) would be yncys.zetran. then?

Posted by seryf on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 22:58 GMT posts: 71

what is unca? as long as that is the sh sounds like "shoot", then you have got it right. or you could have it yncys.ztran. depends on you. you may want to capitalize the ZEtran if that is what receives the emphasis.

---Original Message---
From: Xitron <lojban-out@lojban.org>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 4:53 pm
Subject: lojban 2 vowels I'm missing

Re: 2 vowels I'm missing

Author: Xitron

>
> I'm a beginner, and am seeking info I've not found in the documentation I've
read thus far.
>
> The sound for the short 'i', such as in 'brick'
>
> The sound for the short 'a', such as in 'hat'
>
> Have those been discarded entirely? If so, what vowel sound is generally
substituted?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Unca Xitron

So my handle, Unca Xitron (which uses a short i) would be yncys.zetran. then?

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with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by Xitron on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 23:07 GMT posts: 3

Ahhh. I see my mistake. You are correct.

ynkys.ztran would definitely sound more accurate. The 'c' vs 'k' mistake was just an ignorant mistake on my part. Thanks for pointing out the ztran idea. It tends to sound better than zetran.

ynkas.ztran.

Posted by seryf on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 23:13 GMT posts: 71

---Original Message---
From: Xitron <lojban-out@lojban.org>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 5:07 pm
Subject: lojban 2 vowels I'm missing

Re: 2 vowels I'm missing
it took me a while to sort out c vs k when i wasnt paying attention. i am still a new lojbo myself, at least in skill.
it may (or may not) benefit you to look on the multimedia page and try out my new (experimental)
podcast for learning basic grammar and facts. it is called Radio Free Lojbanistan. Tell me what you think.

seryf

Author: Xitron

Ahhh. I see my mistake. You are correct.

ynkys.ztran would definitely sound more accurate. The 'c' vs 'k' mistake was
just an ignorant mistake on my part. Thanks for pointing out the ztran idea.
It tends to sound better than zetran.

ynkas.ztran.

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Posted by Minimiscience on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 23:15 GMT posts: 3588

de'i li 29 pi'e 08 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi
skamyxatra.
> or you could have it yncys.ztran. depends on you.
.skamyxatra

No, he can't. 'z' is a voiced consonant, and 't' is unvoiced. "ztran." would
have to be changed to "stran.", "zdran.", or "zytran." in order to be an
acceptable Lojban word. Even if he chose one of the first two, any 'i' sound
between the first two consonants would be nonstandard and would only be used by
those having trouble with the cluster.

la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> you may want to capitalize the ZEtran if that is what receives the emphasis.
.skamyxatra

If he writes it as "zetran.", the emphasis will already go on the "ze" by
default.

mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy.

--
no zo mi nenri zo bende

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with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by seryf on Fri 29 of Aug, 2008 23:19 GMT posts: 71

my mistake on the emphasis. you have lost me on the other stuff. apologies if i have taught any false doctrine!

---Original Message---
From: Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 5:13 pm
Subject: lojban Re: 2 vowels I'm missing

de'i li 29 pi'e 08 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi
skamyxatra.
> or you could have it yncys.ztran. depends on you.
.skamyxatra

No, he can't. 'z' is a voiced consonant, and 't' is unvoiced. "ztran." would
have to be changed to "stran.", "zdran.", or "zytran." in order to be an
acceptable Lojban word. Even if he chose one of the first two, any 'i' sound
between the first two consonants would be nonstandard and would only be used by
those having trouble with the cluster.

la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> you may want to capitalize the ZEtran if that is what receives the emphasis.
.skamyxatra

If he writes it as "zetran.", the emphasis will already go on the "ze" by
default.

mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy.

--
no zo mi nenri zo bende

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by PierreAbbat on Sat 30 of Aug, 2008 00:37 GMT posts: 324

On Friday 29 August 2008 18:20:35 Xitron wrote:
> 2 vowels I'm missing
>
> Author: Xitron
>
>
> I'm a beginner, and am seeking info I've not found in the documentation
> I've read thus far.
>
> The sound for the short 'i', such as in 'hick'
>
> The sound for the short 'a', such as in 'hat'
>
> Have those been discarded entirely? If so, what vowel sound is generally
> substituted?

Short i can be substituted with "i" or "e"; short a with "e" or "a". "a" is
avoided in certain positions in names because of the no "la" rule, e.g.
Lansing can't be "lansin", but can be "lensin".

phma

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by Eppcott on Sat 30 of Aug, 2008 03:41 GMT posts: 4740

No problem. It's OK to guess a little. We encourage beginner and
intermediate users to answer questions. Thanks for doing so!
-Eppcott

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:18 PM, <thirderivative@aol.com> wrote:
> my mistake on the emphasis. you have lost me on the other stuff. apologies
> if i have taught any false doctrine!
>
>
> ---Original Message---
> From: Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>
> To: lojban-list@lojban.org
> Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 5:13 pm
> Subject: lojban Re: 2 vowels I'm missing
>
> de'i li 29 pi'e 08 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi
>
> skamyxatra.
>
>> or you could have it yncys.ztran. depends on you.
>
> .skamyxatra
>
>
>
> No, he can't. 'z' is a voiced consonant, and 't' is unvoiced. "ztran."
> would
>
> have to be changed to "stran.", "zdran.", or "zytran." in order to be an
>
> acceptable Lojban word. Even if he chose one of the first two, any 'i'
> sound
>
> between the first two consonants would be nonstandard and would only be used
> by
>
> those having trouble with the cluster.
>
>
>
>
>
> la'o fy. thirderivative@aol.com .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
>
>> you may want to capitalize the ZEtran if that is what receives the
>> emphasis.
>
> .skamyxatra
>
>
>
> If he writes it as "zetran.", the emphasis will already go on the "ze" by
>
> default.
>
>
>
> mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy.
>
>
>
> --
>
> no zo mi nenri zo bende
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>
>
>
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