Lojban In General

Lojban In General


multi-part names

Use this thread to discuss the multi-part names page.

What is the preferred way in Lojban for giving someone's name with an
associated family name, patronymic/matronymic, and/or title?

E.g.: "Secretary Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev"


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posts: 10

Multiple *cmevla* (name words) can be used to form a single name, e.g. *la
mixa,IL. sirGEIvitc. gyrbaTCOF.* I'm not sure how titles are made; I do
think descriptive titles like Alexander the Great can be translated using *
voi*: *la aleksandr. voi banli*

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Seth Gordon <sethg@ropine.com> wrote:

> What is the preferred way in Lojban for giving someone's name with an
> associated family name, patronymic/matronymic, and/or title?
>
> E.g.: "Secretary Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev"
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Penguino wrote:
> Multiple /cmevla/ (name words) can be used to form a single name, e.g.
> /la mixa,IL. sirGEIvitc. gyrbaTCOF./

In Russian, if you see "Sergeyevich" in someone's name, you know that
person's father is named "Sergey". I'm looking for a Lojban grammatical
construction that conveys the same kind of message. IIUC, as far as the
grammar is concerned, "la mixa,IL. serGEIvic. gyrbaTCOF." is a token
with no internal structure.


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posts: 10

Hm. I didn't know that.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Seth Gordon <sethg@ropine.com> wrote:

> Penguino wrote:
>
>> Multiple /cmevla/ (name words) can be used to form a single name, e.g. /la
>> mixa,IL. sirGEIvitc. gyrbaTCOF./
>>
>
> In Russian, if you see "Sergeyevich" in someone's name, you know that
> person's father is named "Sergey". I'm looking for a Lojban grammatical
> construction that conveys the same kind of message. IIUC, as far as the
> grammar is concerned, "la mixa,IL. serGEIvic. gyrbaTCOF." is a token with no
> internal structure.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

posts: 10

I guess a literal translation would be something like *poi bersa la sirgeis.

  • but that isn't very elegant.


On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Penguino <spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hm. I didn't know that.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Seth Gordon <sethg@ropine.com> wrote:
>
>> Penguino wrote:
>>
>>> Multiple /cmevla/ (name words) can be used to form a single name, e.g.
>>> /la mixa,IL. sirGEIvitc. gyrbaTCOF./
>>>
>>
>> In Russian, if you see "Sergeyevich" in someone's name, you know that
>> person's father is named "Sergey". I'm looking for a Lojban grammatical
>> construction that conveys the same kind of message. IIUC, as far as the
>> grammar is concerned, "la mixa,IL. serGEIvic. gyrbaTCOF." is a token with no
>> internal structure.
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>>
>

posts: 324

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 13:15:17 Seth Gordon wrote:
> In Russian, if you see "Sergeyevich" in someone's name, you know that
> person's father is named "Sergey". I'm looking for a Lojban grammatical
> construction that conveys the same kind of message. IIUC, as far as the
> grammar is concerned, "la mixa,IL. serGEIvic. gyrbaTCOF." is a token
> with no internal structure.

There isn't any. I have thought of using "bes" for this, as "ben" is used in
Hebrew, thus "la mixa,IL bes.sergeis. gyrbaTCOF.", but there is no
distinction between that and someone named Bess.

There are many name formats in the world, and you just have to know them to
understand names given in them. Some of them are:
Hungarian: Family name comes first. Edward Teller is Teller Ede.
Indonesian: Family names are rare. Sukarno is just Sukarno. His daughter,
Megawati Sukarnoputri, has a patronymic ("putri" is from Sanskrit).
English: Many people have middle names, but not all. Married women often, but
not always, have a maiden name before their married last name. If the maiden
name happens to be a common middle name, you can't tell from the name which
it is.
Spanish: Maiden name comes after the married name, separated by "de". Men have
two last names, separated by "y". The maiden or maternal name is often
omitted or reduced to an initial (José Cruz D.).
Icelandic: Most people have a given name and a patronymic, but no family name.
I've thought that there ought to be a culture where men pass one family name
to their sons and women another family name to their children, but I've never
heard of one.

As to titles, you could translate them by names, but I think "Secretary" is
best handled as an appositive.

Pierre


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posts: 143
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 20:04, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> I've thought that there ought to be a culture where men pass one family name
> to their sons and women another family name to their children, but I've never
> heard of one.

Well, I've heard from a couple Americans couples where neither partner
changed their name upon marriage who followed this practice (or the
reverse) with their children's last names. The other main alternative
for the children is hyphenation of the parents' last names.

Chris Capel
--
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)


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with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

posts: 143
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 20:04, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:

> I've thought that there ought to be a culture where men pass one family name
> to their sons and women another family name to their children, but I've never
> heard of one.

Well, I've heard from a couple Americans couples where neither partner
changed their name upon marriage who followed this practice (or the
reverse) with their children's last names. The other main alternative
for the children is hyphenation of the parents' last names.

Chris Capel
--
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.