Lojban In General

Posted by brablonau on Wed 02 of Dec, 2009 12:21 GMT posts: 80

coi rodo

I have a question about the space/time tense system. When specifying
both spatial and temporal tense in the same tense construct (with no
intervening connectives), does it matter in what order the spatial
tense and temporal tenses are specified?

>From Chapter 10. Imaginary Journeys: The Lojban Space/Time Tense
System, Section 4. Temporal tenses: PU and ZI:

: when both spatial and temporal tense cmavo are given in a single
: tense construct, the temporal tense is expressed first. (If space
: were expressed before time, then certain constructions would be
: ambiguous.)

However, the 3rd baseline EBNF grammar (bnf.300) allows space and time
in either order:

: simple-tense-modal<972> = NAhE SE BAI NAI KI |
: NAhE (time space | space time) & CAhA KI | KI | CUhE

And the 3rd baseline YACC grammar (grammar.300) agrees with the EBNF:

: tense_C_979 : time_1030
: /* time-only */
: /* space defaults to time-space reference space */
:
: | space_1040
: /* can include time if specified with VIhA */
: /* otherwise time defaults to the time-space reference time */
:
: | time_1030 space_1040
: /* time and space - If space_1040 is marked with
: VIhA for space-time the tense may be self-contradictory */
: /* interval prop before space_time is for time distribution */
: | space_1040 time_1030
: ;

Is 3rd baseline January 10, 1997 still the most recent official
version of the formal grammars? Have I found a mistake in the Lojban
Reference Grammar? There doesn't seem to be any mention of this in
the CLL errata at
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=CLL%2C+aka+Reference+Grammar%2C+Errata
Is this statement in the CLL a holdover from a previous version of the
grammar?

I was thinking that the CLL's remark might have been a reference to
the fact that space interval properties look just like time interval
properties. Specifically, a space interval property consist of {fe'e}
followed by a time interval property. However, the grammar for
space-int-props is:

: space-int-props<1049> = (FEhE interval-property) ...

and not

: space-int-props<1049> = FEhE interval-property ...

Each interval-property is immediately preceeded by {fe'e}. So, in fact,
{fe'e ta'e ta'enai} would correctly parse as {fe'e ta'e} {ta'enai}.

It looks, to me, like spatial and temporal tenses may appear in either
order (space time, or time space) without ambiguity. Is the Reference
Grammar in error, or am I missing something?

mi'e brablonau

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