Lojban In General

Posted by kribacr on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:20 GMT posts: 19

Not {zo'e}?

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se> wrote:

> I wish Lojban had a generic word for a specific sumti, meaning {le
> co'e}. I guess {le co'e ku} is okay (the terminator is often needed),
> but it just seems weird to have all these words with specificity
> implied, but no generic one.
>
> We have {le}, {la}, {ti}, {ta}, {tu}, {ri}, {ra}, {ru}, {ko'a},
> {ko'e}, {ko'i}, {ko'o}, {ko'u}, {fo'a}, {fo'e}, {fo'i}, {fo'o},
> {fo'u}, {dei}, {di'e}, {di'u}, {da'e}, {da'u}, {de'e}, {de'u}, {go'a},
> {go'e}, {go'i}, {go'o}, {go'u}, and I guess probably others.
>
> So we can allocate all these specific words with implied specificity,
> but we can't have a generic one with implied specificity.
>
> Like I said, it just seems weird.
>
>
> --
> Daniel Brockman
> daniel@brockman.se
>
>
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> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by dbrock on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:20 GMT posts: 47

While {zo'e} is generic, it is not specific. In other words, {zo'e}
is totally generic. It has the semantics of {lo}, rather than {le},
if you will.

I would like to have a {le ze'ei zo'e}.

--
Daniel Brockman
daniel@brockman.se

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Posted by dbrock on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:20 GMT posts: 47

To put it yet another way:

{lo co'e ku} = {zo'e}
{le co'e ku} = ?

--
Daniel Brockman
daniel@brockman.se

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In the likelly case of our ability to express "le bu'a" in lojban
phrase involving "lo bu'e" or vice versa, "le co'e" will be the same
as "lo co'e" by definition of "co'e".

Trying that in lojban:
ro bu'a su'o ju'o bu'e zo'u lo ka smuni ce'u cu te mintu lu le bu'a
li'u ce'e lu lo bu'e li'u ca'e pe'e jeseni'ibo lu le ce'u li'u ce'e lu
lo ce'u li'u soi vo'e vo'i

.iia'onai

2009/9/20, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se>:
> {lo co'e ku} = {zo'e}
> {le co'e ku} = ?

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the likelly case of our ability to express "le bu'a" in lojban
> phrase involving "lo bu'e" or vice versa, "le co'e" will be  the same
> as "lo co'e" by definition of "co'e".

So what you're suggesting is that {lo co'e} and {le co'e} are identical?

You don't consider {le co'e} to be a specific thing the speaker has in mind?

--
Daniel Brockman
daniel@brockman.se

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2009/9/22, Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com>:
> You don't consider {le co'e} to be a specific thing the speaker has in mind?

I do. But, than "le SELBRI" == "lo THE THING, SPEAKER HAVE IN MIND,
DESCRIBED AS SELBRI" (i beleive, it can be expressed in lojban
somehow). That gives us "le co'e" == "lo co'e".

If you want do emphasize the fact of having it in mind, you have "lo
selpei be mi" and alike. So, i still see no "use case" for the new
sumti.

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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Posted by lagejyspa on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:32 GMT posts: 350

While I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at, or what utility it
would have, really, you've already name a "specific generic" prosumti
-- the ko'a/fo'a series. You could use one without assigning it, and
it definitely refers to a specific something, but what that something
is is unknown — ko'a klama le zdani (he/she/it goes to the house.
Who? Dunno, we haven't told the listener yet).

--gejyspa

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