History: Thinking about Thinking in Lojban

Source of version: 1 (current)

* First, what the gismu list says: __cilre__ x1 learns x2 (du'u) about subject x3 from source x4 (obj./event) by method x5 (event/process) __djuno__ x1 knows fact(s) x2 (du'u) about subject x3 by epistemology x4 (words usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place; know how to - implying knowledge of method but not necessarily having the ability to practice (= tadjyju'o)) (cf. know/familiar with: se slabu, na'e cnino, na'e fange; cmavo list du'o, cilre, certu, facki, jijnu, jimpe, senpi, smadi, kakne, birti, mipri, morji, saske, viska) __jimpe__ x1 understands/comprehends fact/truth x2 (du'u) about subject x3; x1 understands (fi) x3 (cf. djuno, jijnu, morna, smuni, saske, viska) __jinvi__ x1 thinks/opines x2 (opinion) (du'u) is true about subject/issue x3 on grounds x4 (words usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place) (cf. cmavo list pe'i, ciksi, jijnu, nabmi, pensi, senpi, sidbo, birti, pinka) __krici__ x1 believes (without evidence/proof) belief/creed x2 (du'u) is true/assumed about subject x3 ("without evidence" refers to objective external evidence; also gives credence, has conviction); (cf. censa, cevni, lijda, makfa, malsi, senpi, birti) __morji__ x1 remembers/recalls/recollects fact(s)/memory x2 (du'u) about subject x3 (cf. cmavo list ba'anai, menli, pensi, sanji, djuno, notci) __pensi__ x1 thinks/considers/cogitates/reasons/is pensive about/reflects upon subject/ concept x2 (also: x1 is thoughtful (one sense); x2 is mental (one sense)/intellectual (one sense) (= selpei)); (cf. cmavo list pe'i, jijnu, menli, morji, sidbo, jinvi, se nabmi, minra, lanli, besna, saske, skami) __sanji__ x1 is conscious/aware of x2 (object/abstract); x1 discerns/recognizes x2 (object/ abstract) (also: x1 knows (of) x2 (one sense); awareness implies some amount of mental processing above and beyond mere sensory detection, and may also be applied to mental relationships that are not detected by the senses); (cf. menli, morji, ganse, sipna, cikna) __sidbo__ x1 (idea abstract) is an idea/concept/thought about x2 (object/abstract) by thinker x3 (also (adjective:) x1 is ideal/ideational); (cf. ciksi, jijnu, mucti, jinvi, nabmi, pensi, xanri, cmavo list si'o) __slabu__ x1 is old/familiar/well-known to observer x2 in feature x3 (ka) by standard x4 (This can cover both meanings of old. Old in years, i.e. age, can be conveyed through x2 = theworld, life, existence (= loi nu zasti); in usage this has been a common default for ellipsis. However slabu is not the opposite of 'young' (= nalci'o, tolci'o), but the opposite of 'new' (= tolni'o); also ancient (= tcesau), age (= nilsau); x2 is used to x1 (= selsau for reordered places); historic/historical (= cirsau, cirselcedra; also vaipru)); (cf. clani, citno, cnino, se djuno; not the opposite of citno, djuno) __smuni__ x1 is a meaning/interpretation of x2 recognized/seen/accepted by x3 (referential meaning (=selsni, snismu)]; (cf. jimpe, sinxa, valsi, tanru, gismu, lujvo, cmavo, jufra) __sruma__ x1 assumes/supposes that x2 (du'u) is true about subject x3; (epistemology) (words usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place); (cf. smadi, birti) __xanri__ x1 (concept) exists in the imagination of/is imagined by/is imaginary to x2 (also (adjective:) x1 is mental (one sense), x1 is unreal (one sense); in spite of the synonym, note that x2 is imaginary does not imply that it doesn't exist in the real world; the definition is crafted so that one can talk about imaginary things without claiming that they thereby really exist); (cf. fatci, senva, sucta, zasti, cfika, dacti, menli, sidbo) *I don't have time right now to go back & locate in the archives some of my earlier attempts to make distinctions with this set. (To be continued) For now, i am going to meditate on the differences, if any between __ve jinvi__ & __ve djuno__. ** ''lo si'o veljinvi cu du lo si'o veldjuno'' (ku'i zo djuno zo jinvi cu frica ma) ''frica tu'a le tergi'u poi na'ebo le 4moi'' ** One idea: ''ve jinvi'' is ''su'o broda'' & ''ve djuno'' is ''so'i broda'' (or ''pirau broda''?) . Or is it ''le broda'' & ''lo broda''? I.e. we opine for reasons, which we can furnish. But what we know, we can't always express fully. ---- fu'eca'eko'agoi lo'e mibypre cu cilre .i ko'a morji le se cilre .i ko'a sanji .i ko'a morji fi le se sanji .i ko'a se xanri .i ko'a se slabu le xanri .i ko'a se ctuca .i ko'a krici le te ctuca .i ko'a lifri je pensi .i ko'a jimpe le se lifri je se pensi .i ko'a djuno fo le munje be le se jimpe be ko'a .a le lanzu be ko'afu'o