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    • place tag confusion

    Posted by winkerbean on Sat 24 of Jan, 2009 21:41 GMT posts: 42

    coi rodo

    The jboski page translates 'fi lo skami cu tavla mi' to 'any/some which are computers are the subject of talking to Me', suggesting the place tag switching is temporary and limited to the one sumti. However, based on L4B (chapter 2) and the LRG (chapter 4), it should translate to 'any/some which are computers are the subject of a talk in language Me'.

    Specifically, LRG says:
    "What if some sumti have FA tags and others do not? The rule is that after a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following it occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subject to the proviso that an already-filled place is skipped"

    and L4B says:
    "After a place introduced with a place tag, any trailing places follow it in numbering. So in

    la suzyn. klama fo la .uacintyn. le karce
    Susan goes via Washington by car

    la .uacintyn. is the fourth place of klama, and le karce is understood as the place following the fourth place — i.e. the fifth place."

    Someone in IRC commented:
    "I think the right-hand side always starts with x2"

    I think this would make an acceptable exception, *if* I could find the documentation of it.

    Any thoughts and/or clarifications as to which is correct? (I would think a sizable portion of translations depend on the answer. Or, at the least, it does for Me.)

    Reads: 17448
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    Posted by winkerbean on Sat 24 of Jan, 2009 22:05 GMT posts: 42
    Correction: the citation in LRG is chapter 9, not 4.
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    Posted by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= on Sat 24 of Jan, 2009 22:39 GMT

    On 1/24/09, winkerbean <lojban-out@lojban.org> wrote:
    >
    > Someone in IRC commented:
    > "I think the right-hand side always starts with x2"

    That's wrong as a general rule. For example, in "mi do frica lo ka ma
    kau skari lo kerfa be ce'u", "I am different from you in what color is
    our hair", the right hand side starts with x3.

    > Any thoughts and/or clarifications as to which is correct? (I would think a
    > sizable portion of translations depend on the answer. Or, at the least, it
    > does for Me.)

    jboski is probably wrong. It is generally confusing and a bad idea to
    use untagged terms in the same bridi after a FA has been used.

    mu'o mi'e xorxes


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    Posted by lagejyspa on Sun 25 of Jan, 2009 22:00 GMT posts: 350

    On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:41 PM, winkerbean <lojban-out@lojban.org> wrote:

    >
    > place tag confusion
    >
    > Author: winkerbean
    >
    > coi rodo
    >
    > The jboski page translates 'fi lo skami cu tavla mi' to 'any/some which are
    > computers are the subject of talking to Me', suggesting the place tag
    > switching is temporary and limited to the one sumti. However, based on L4B
    > (chapter 2) and the LRG (chapter 4), it should translate to 'any/some which
    > are computers are the subject of a talk in language Me'.
    >
    > Specifically, LRG says:
    > "What if some sumti have FA tags and others do not? The rule is that after
    > a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following it occupy the places numerically
    > succeeding it, subject to the proviso that an already-filled place is
    > skipped"
    >
    > and L4B says:
    > "After a place introduced with a place tag, any trailing places follow it
    > in numbering. So in
    >
    > la suzyn. klama fo la .uacintyn. le karce
    > Susan goes via Washington by car
    >
    > la .uacintyn. is the fourth place of klama, and le karce is understood as
    > the place following the fourth place — i.e. the fifth place."
    >
    > Someone in IRC commented:
    > "I think the right-hand side always starts with x2"
    >
    > I think this would make an acceptable exception, *if* I could find the
    > documentation of it.
    >
    > Any thoughts and/or clarifications as to which is correct? (I would think
    > a sizable portion of translations depend on the answer. Or, at the least,
    > it does for Me.)
    >

    jboski is wrong, the grammar is correct. This is one of the known areas
    where jboski doesn't interpret it according to what the grammar says it
    should.

    --gejyspa

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    Posted by winkerbean on Tue 27 of Jan, 2009 15:37 GMT posts: 42

    mi tavla la ritcyrd. la jbofi'es.

    We've been dicussing steps to take for Me to become the official Maintainer of jbofihe. (i.e., cvs repository, freshmeat/sourceforge entry, etc.) When I get time, I'll fix it up. As I have more info, I'll pass it along.

    mi'e xuinkrbin.

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