Lojban In General

Posted by arj on Sat 11 of Apr, 2009 00:01 GMT posts: 953

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 07:19:11PM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote:
> You know the game RoboRally? Jen is making a Lojbanic RoboRally set
> for us to play, as a tool to learn the directional words.
>
> I would appreciate some translation help with any or all of the
> following statements for the program book:
>
> --------------
> Lojban, the Logical Language
> Poolside Room 6
> Lojbanists from all over the country will speak about, and sometimes
> in, a language based on predicate nominative logic systems which
> Heinlein borrowed for "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Lojban is one of
> the most well-developed artificial languages in existence today.

What does "predicate nominative" mean?

--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
Hvis jeg *vil* skrive til *den* plassen i minnet, så *skal* jeg skrive
til *den* plassen i minnet. Det er derfor jeg foretrekker assembler.
— Ingulf Helland

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Posted by PierreAbbat on Sat 11 of Apr, 2009 00:23 GMT posts: 324

On Friday 10 April 2009 19:58:29 Arnt Richard Johansen wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 07:19:11PM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote:
> > Lojbanists from all over the country will speak about, and sometimes
> > in, a language based on predicate nominative logic systems which
> > Heinlein borrowed for "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Lojban is one of
> > the most well-developed artificial languages in existence today.
>
> What does "predicate nominative" mean?

Should be just "predicate logic". A predicate nominative is a word in the
nominative case used in the tail of a predicate, as in "it is I".

Pierre

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Posted by Eppcott on Sat 11 of Apr, 2009 00:42 GMT posts: 4740

Thanks, I'll make that correction.

> On Friday 10 April 2009 19:58:29 Arnt Richard Johansen wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 07:19:11PM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote:
>> > Lojbanists from all over the country will speak about, and sometimes
>> > in, a language based on predicate nominative logic systems which
>> > Heinlein borrowed for "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Lojban is one of
>> > the most well-developed artificial languages in existence today.
>>
>> What does "predicate nominative" mean?
>
> Should be just "predicate logic". A predicate nominative is a word in the
> nominative case used in the tail of a predicate, as in "it is I".
>
> Pierre
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

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Posted by PierreAbbat on Sat 11 of Apr, 2009 00:44 GMT posts: 324

On Friday 10 April 2009 19:19:11 Matt Arnold wrote:
> Lojban Practice
> Poolside Room 6
> Spectators welcome, but to use English, you have to write it on paper.
> This is the chance Lojbanists crave, to speak only in Lojban, the
> Logical Language!

rapcreze'a tu'a la lojban.
bu'u le xamoi kumfa re'o le limla'u
.i fi'i lo zgana .iku'i lo se rarbau cu .ei ciska fi lo pelji .i lo jbopre cu
xagji lo nu bu'u ra tavla bau la lojban. po'o po'u le logji bangu

mu'omi'e .pier.

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On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lojbanists from all over the country will speak about, and sometimes
> in, a language based on predicate nominative logic systems which
> Heinlein borrowed for "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Lojban is one of
> the most well-developed artificial languages in existence today.

lu

lo jbopre noi xabju lo vrici cu tavla fo la .lojban. .e lo drata fi
ly. noi bangu zi'e noi krasi le logji ciste zi'e noi la'o gy Heinlein
gy cu skicu be ke'a finti lo cfika no'u la'o gy "The Moon Is A Harsh
Mistress" gy .i la .lojban. po'o nai cu traji lo ka farvi fo le'i
cabdei runbau

li'u

xe fanva fu mi

mu'o mi'e selkik

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On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
> lo jbopre noi xabju lo vrici cu tavla fo la .lojban. .e lo drata fi
> ly. noi bangu zi'e noi krasi le logji ciste zi'e noi la'o gy Heinlein

I think I meant "le logji ciste ku cu krasi ke'a" there, so I guess
"noi se krasi"..

> gy cu skicu be ke'a finti lo cfika no'u la'o gy "The Moon Is A Harsh
> Mistress" gy .i la .lojban. po'o nai cu traji lo ka farvi fo le'i
> cabdei runbau

u'u that should be "ka farvi kei"..

so here's a correcter version:

lo jbopre noi xabju lo vrici cu tavla fo la .lojban. .e lo drata fi
ly. noi bangu zi'e noi se krasi le logji ciste zi'e noi la'o gy Heinlein
gy cu skicu be ke'a finti lo cfika no'u la'o gy "The Moon Is A Harsh
Mistress" gy .i la .lojban. po'o nai cu traji lo ka farvi kei fo le'i
cabdei runbau

i think writing that was the last thing i did before falling asleep
last night

.i mi morji lo du'u ro roi finti le xelfanva kei lo pu'u ca le pu zi
nicte mi pu'o sipna
.i mi milxe po'o lo ka morji .i .o'e ro'a simsa lo senva fa le nu mi
jbota'a do doi jbope'o
.i mi ca cikna co mutce si mlitce .i ku'i .e'i mi zmadu citka .au .i
.ai mi ba di'a tavla do .i'i

mu'o mi'e la stela se ckiku

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Posted by rlpowell on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 09:43 GMT posts: 14214

Back-translating without the original in front of me, as a check.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 08:43:20PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> rapcreze'a tu'a la lojban.

Practicers Of Lojban

(I respect observatives; sorry xorxes)

> bu'u le xamoi kumfa re'o le limla'u

At the 6th room, and adjacent to the thingy; I think just lalxu is
sufficient. You want "be" before "re'o", IMO, because it's the 6th
pool-adjacent-room.

> .i fi'i lo zgana .iku'i lo se rarbau cu .ei ciska fi lo pelji .i
> lo jbopre cu xagji lo nu bu'u ra tavla bau la lojban. po'o po'u le
> logji bangu

Why, oh why, isn't there a gismu for "fi'i"? I don't like "fi'i lo
zgana" as a sentence by itself; I suggest {lo zgana cu zanvi'e}.
But anyways: "Observers welcome. However, speakers of natural
languages are required to write on paper. Lojbanists hunger for
being in the same place as other Lojbanists speaking only Lojban,
the logical language."

-Robin

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" — http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

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you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by rlpowell on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 09:52 GMT posts: 14214

Again, backtranslating without looking again.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 06:29:35PM -0400, Stela Selckiku wrote:
> so here's a correcter version:
>
>
> lo jbopre noi xabju lo vrici cu tavla fo la .lojban. .e lo drata fi
> ly. noi bangu zi'e noi se krasi le logji ciste zi'e noi la'o gy Heinlein
> gy cu skicu be ke'a finti lo cfika no'u la'o gy "The Moon Is A Harsh
> Mistress" gy .i la .lojban. po'o nai cu traji lo ka farvi kei fo le'i
> cabdei runbau

Lojbanists from all over speak in Lojban and other languages about
Lojban, a language and the result of the logical system and

OK, getting excessive with the zi'e

Heinlein describingly-of-it invented the fiction which is "The Moon
Is A Harsh Mistress". Lojban (not uniquely) is extreme in
developing through the stage of the set of today constructed
languages. (???)

I'll be taking my own crack at that one. Sorry.

-Robin

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" — http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by rlpowell on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 10:28 GMT posts: 14214

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 07:19:11PM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote:
> You know the game RoboRally? Jen is making a Lojbanic RoboRally
> set for us to play, as a tool to learn the directional words.

Dude, that's *AWESOME*. If it's decently produced, I will totally
buy one.

> I would appreciate some translation help with any or all of the
> following statements for the program book:
>
> --------------
> Lojban, the Logical Language
> Poolside Room 6
> Lojbanists from all over the country will speak about, and sometimes
> in, a language based on predicate nominative logic systems which
> Heinlein borrowed for "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." Lojban is one of
> the most well-developed artificial languages in existence today.

la .lojban. no'u le logji bangu

ne'i le xamoi kumfa be re'o le lalxu

lo jbopre poi xabju so'i da cu tavla fi la .lojban. gi'e ru'i nai
tavla fo ri noi se jicmu le bridi ke logji ciste gi'e se pilno la'o
gy. Heinlein .gy. tu'a la'o gy. The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress .gy.
noi cfika .i la .lojban. xagmau so'a runbau le ka farvi

> --------------
> Lojban Practice
> Poolside Room 6
> Spectators welcome, but to use English, you have to write it on paper.
> This is the chance Lojbanists crave, to speak only in Lojban, the
> Logical Language!

Pierre's version is fine.

> --------------
> Lojban All Night
> Poolside Room 6
> Lojban speakers and their friends will translate your English
> sentences, play Lojban translations of board and card games, record
> podcasts in Lojban, discuss natural language processing and Lojban
> translation assistance software, attempt to precisely determine the
> meaning of the Lojban word for "the", and many other activities.
> Everyone is welcome! Visit us at http://www.lojban.org/
> --------------

I thought the last one was tough. 0.o

la .lojban. cabna pi ro le nicte

ne'i le xamoi kumfa be re'o le lalxu

lo jbopre .e lo pendo cu fanva fo le do glico jufra gi'e kelci le
lojbo fanva be le selkei gi'e gasnu lo lojbo se cusku vreji gi'e
casnu lo skami ke bangu ciste gi'e troci co jimpe fi zo lo .e zo le
gi'e gasnu so'i lo drata cinri .i ro da zanvi'e .i ko pilno la'o
zoi. http://www.lojban.org/ .zoi

-Robin

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" — http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by PierreAbbat on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 14:24 GMT posts: 324

On Sunday 12 April 2009 05:42:12 Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> At the 6th room, and adjacent to the thingy; I think just lalxu is
> sufficient. You want "be" before "re'o", IMO, because it's the 6th
> pool-adjacent-room.

So change it. I didn't know how the rooms are laid out.

> Why, oh why, isn't there a gismu for "fi'i"? I don't like "fi'i lo
> zgana" as a sentence by itself; I suggest {lo zgana cu zanvi'e}.
> But anyways: "Observers welcome. However, speakers of natural
> languages are required to write on paper. Lojbanists hunger for
> being in the same place as other Lojbanists speaking only Lojban,
> the logical language."

I meant "ra" to refer to the room. Should it be "ru"?

Pierre

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On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Robin Lee Powell
<rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> Back-translating without the original in front of me, as a check.
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 08:43:20PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> rapcreze'a tu'a la lojban.
>
> Practicers Of Lojban
>
> (I respect observatives; sorry xorxes)

Not sure what you mean. "Observatives" is just a strange name given to
bridi without an explicit x1. What does it mean to "respect" them? Are
you saying I don't respect them? I certainly use them too.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Posted by rlpowell on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 17:39 GMT posts: 14214

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:40:40AM -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > Back-translating without the original in front of me, as a
> > check.
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 08:43:20PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> >>
> >> rapcreze'a tu'a la lojban.
> >
> > Practicers Of Lojban
> >
> > (I respect observatives; sorry xorxes)
>
> Not sure what you mean. "Observatives" is just a strange name
> given to bridi without an explicit x1. What does it mean to
> "respect" them? Are you saying I don't respect them? I certainly
> use them too.

IIRC you don't like to treat them specially, as indicating an
observation of something that could fit the x1.

Perhaps that was someone else.

-Robin

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" — http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by rlpowell on Sun 12 of Apr, 2009 17:40 GMT posts: 14214

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 10:22:59AM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> On Sunday 12 April 2009 05:42:12 Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > At the 6th room, and adjacent to the thingy; I think just lalxu is
> > sufficient. You want "be" before "re'o", IMO, because it's the 6th
> > pool-adjacent-room.
>
> So change it. I didn't know how the rooms are laid out.

I don't either, but what else would "Poolside Room 6" mean? I guess
you're reading it as "Room 6, noi poolside"; my experience with
convention/hotel layouts disagrees.

> > Why, oh why, isn't there a gismu for "fi'i"? I don't like "fi'i
> > lo zgana" as a sentence by itself; I suggest {lo zgana cu
> > zanvi'e}. But anyways: "Observers welcome. However, speakers of
> > natural languages are required to write on paper. Lojbanists
> > hunger for being in the same place as other Lojbanists speaking
> > only Lojban, the logical language."
>
> I meant "ra" to refer to the room. Should it be "ru"?

Oh, OK. No, you're right; I read ri.

-Robin

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" — http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Robin Lee Powell
<rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:40:40AM -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 08:43:20PM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>> >>
>> >> rapcreze'a tu'a la lojban.
>> >
>> > Practicers Of Lojban
>> >
>> > (I respect observatives; sorry xorxes)
>>
>> Not sure what you mean. "Observatives" is just a strange name
>> given to bridi without an explicit x1. What does it mean to
>> "respect" them? Are you saying I don't respect them? I certainly
>> use them too.
>
> IIRC you don't like to treat them specially, as indicating an
> observation of something that could fit the x1.

I don't treat them as if they carry an implicit "za'a", no. And the
relationship is always between all the arguments, x1, x2, x3, etc,
whether they are stated explicitly or not. "rapcreze'a tu'a la
lojban" and "tu'a la lojban cu se rapcreze'a" say basically the same
thing.

> Perhaps that was someone else.

You probably remember right that I made a comment some time that bridi
with zo'e in x1 don't need a special name, and "observative" is not a
very good choice in any case.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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