Lojban In General

Posted by slobin on Mon 17 of Nov, 2008 20:12 GMT posts: 40

coi rodo

I am confused: what is the intended usage of x3 in djuno, krici,
and probably others? I don't see any difference in meaning in:

mi djuno ledu'u da prami de ku da

and

mi djuno ledu'u da prami de ku de

Of course I can say in English "I know about him that he loves her"
and "I know about her that he loves her", but I can not explain how
and why are they different.

--
http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
<cyril@slobin.pp.ru> `it means just what I choose it to mean'

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Posted by Minimiscience on Mon 17 of Nov, 2008 21:20 GMT posts: 3588

de'i li 17 pi'e 11 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. Cyril Slobin .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> I am confused: what is the intended usage of x3 in djuno, krici,
> and probably others? I don't see any difference in meaning in:
>
> mi djuno ledu'u da prami de ku da
>
> and
>
> mi djuno ledu'u da prami de ku de
>
> Of course I can say in English "I know about him that he loves her"
> and "I know about her that he loves her", but I can not explain how
> and why are they different.
.skamyxatra

In this case, the x3 place is used to change the focus of the statement that
you know; while both sentences mean the same thing in the end, you are
emphasising different things you know about in each.

Besides that, the x3 place can also be used to specify the subject area of a
statement that does not explicitly give a frame of reference, e.g., "{mi djuno
lodu'u ro sumti cu cinse kei la la'oban.}" — "I know that all nouns have
gender in Latin." If you didn't specify the x3 place, the sentence would be
unclear as to what nouns you are referring to, as obviously not all nouns in
all languages have gender. (Of course, you could use "{ma'i}" within the
abstraction instead, but Lojban has never claimed to be absolutely minimal.)

Additionally, if the x2 place of "{djuno}" is unspecified, the x3 place can be
used to make a general statement about the area(s) of your knowledge, e.g.,
"{mi djuno fi loi skami}" ("I know about computers") can be used to profess
your expertise in computers without having to get specific about exactly what
you know.

There are probably some other uses for the x3 place, but these should give you
a good idea of how it can be used.

mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy.

--
ko senpi le du'u do bilga lenu senpi

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