Lojban In General

Posted by Minimiscience on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:33 GMT posts: 3588

de'i li 30 pi'e 09 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Oleksii Melnyk .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra.
> lo cinri cu ka'e preti roda lo verba
> .i lu ma smuni lo'u nu kei le'u li'u cu puzi preti la lojban lo tixnu be mi
> .i bai le nu go'i kei mi co'a pensi lo du'u di'e
.skamyxatra

Remove the "{lo du'u}"; "{di'e}" belongs to KOhA and is thus a pro-{sumti}, not
a pro-{bridi}.

> .ije mi na morji le du'u ri drani fo le gerna be la lojban

I think this might be an appropriate place to use "{jei}" instead of "{du'u}."
You are failing to remember *whether or not* "lo ku" is grammatically correct,
not *the fact that* it is grammatically correct (which it isn't). However,
since the definition for "{morji}" states that its x2 is/should be a "{du'u}"
abstraction, it might be more correct to use "{lo du'u xu kau}" instead.

> Looks like "loku" can easily be parsed, understood in the only way,
> gives us a lot of "zo'e"s of different types in a short form, and
> follows a consistent pattern of eliding everything elidable.
>
> Have i missed something?

Aside from the fact that "lo ku" and the like are completely invalid Lojban,
this seems like nothing more than a variant of "{lo co'e}" that saves only one
or two syllables; I don't really see enough benefit to it that would warrant
the (potentially problematic) changes to the grammar, confusion of newcomers,
and/or increased probability of grammatically correct typos.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

--
ko senpi lo du'u do bilga lonu senpi

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On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> .i la jbofi'e. na nelci lo'u lo ku le'u
> .ije mi na morji le du'u ri drani fo le gerna be la lojban

na gendra .i ku'i lo cmalu te stika cu banzu lo nu gasnu lo nu gendra
.i ko jmina zoi zoi | (LA | LE) # KU#/ zoi lo javni po'u zoi zoi

sumti-6 =
(LAhE # | NAhE BO #) relative-clauses sumti /LUhU#/
| KOhA #
| lerfu-string /BOI#/
| LA # relative-clauses CMENE ... #
| (LA | LE) # sumti-tail /KU#/
| LI # mex /LOhO#/
| ZO any-word #
| LU text /LIhU#/
| LOhU any-word ... LEhU #
| ZOI any-word anything any-word #

zoi

.i lo'u la ku le'u steci cinri ki'u lo du'u zo ku na pagbu lo cmene

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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2009/9/30, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>:
> Remove the "{lo du'u}"; "{di'e}" belongs to KOhA and is thus a pro-{sumti},
> not a pro-{bridi}.

I see, thanks. But i think about ideas, not about phrases (which is
di'e "type", AFAIR). So, either my brain is broken by strongly typed
programming languages, or i need to convert "next phrase" into "idea"
type somehow. Would "du'u go'o" (or si'o go'o) do the trick? Or i just
need to stop worrying?

> this seems like nothing more than a variant of "{lo co'e}" that saves only
> one or two syllables;

That's it. "LE KU" is 1.5 to 2 times shorter, then "LE co'e KU" and
saves su'o cmavo from remembering. The same can be applied to some
other "elliptical/unspecified" uses to
save several more sumti. So, that is just a small bit of consistency
(what is more elliptical, then an empty "()"?) and several cmavo.
Nothing to care about, unless you are fanatic perfectionist

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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Posted by lagejyspa on Sat 05 of Dec, 2009 11:37 GMT posts: 350

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/9/30, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>:
>> Remove the "{lo du'u}"; "{di'e}" belongs to KOhA and is thus a pro-{sumti},
>> not a pro-{bridi}.
>
> I see, thanks. But i think about ideas, not about phrases (which is
> di'e "type", AFAIR). So, either my brain is broken by strongly typed
> programming languages, or i need to convert "next phrase" into "idea"
> type somehow. Would "du'u go'o" (or si'o go'o) do the trick? Or i just
> need to stop worrying?

Your brain is broken by strongly typed programming languages.
Unfortunately for me, said brokenness is REQUIRED by lojban, which is
a strongly-typed language itself. (I program in languages with no
typing, so that requirement in lojban really grates on me). Anyway,
yes "du'u go'o" would work fine.

xu do se tixnu lo tadni be la lojban .uesai .i le tixnu cu nanca li xo

--gejyspa

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>xu do se tixnu lo tadni be la lojban .uesai .i le tixnu cu nanca li xo

ja'a .a'o .i ri nanca li pano .i pu so'o nanca mi fliba le nu bapli le
nu la lojban cu cinri .i puzi po'o ku pa po'o tixnu co'a te preti ly
.i la'a lo se ranji be le za'i mi kansa lo lanzu kei na banzu

2009/10/5, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/9/30, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>:
>>> Remove the "{lo du'u}"; "{di'e}" belongs to KOhA and is thus a
>>> pro-{sumti},
>>> not a pro-{bridi}.
>>
>> I see, thanks. But i think about ideas, not about phrases (which is
>> di'e "type", AFAIR). So, either my brain is broken by strongly typed
>> programming languages, or i need to convert "next phrase" into "idea"
>> type somehow. Would "du'u go'o" (or si'o go'o) do the trick? Or i just
>> need to stop worrying?
>
> Your brain is broken by strongly typed programming languages.
> Unfortunately for me, said brokenness is REQUIRED by lojban, which is
> a strongly-typed language itself. (I program in languages with no
> typing, so that requirement in lojban really grates on me). Anyway,
> yes "du'u go'o" would work fine.
>
> xu do se tixnu lo tadni be la lojban .uesai .i le tixnu cu nanca li xo
>
> --gejyspa
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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I think {lo ku} is a great idea.

In fact, a couple of weeks ago I asked for what I called a "generic
specific sumti" (with the meaning of {le co'e ku}, which I thought was
just slightly too awkward for day-to-day use).

What I asked for is pretty much exactly {le ku}.

I think {la ku} is nice too, for when you want to refer to something
named that you are talking about but don't want to repeat the name.

ki'e .lex.

--
Daniel Brockman
daniel@gointeractive.se

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