Lojban In General

Posted by dbrock on Fri 18 of Dec, 2009 11:56 GMT posts: 47

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that I
> don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}.  I kind of
> understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} is
> used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from
> {ca'o}?

I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.

Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that
{ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time.

While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point
in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This
means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu
brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu
brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}.

.i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi
I like you when you like me.
I like you at some instant when you like me.

.i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi
I like you while you like me.
I like you the whole time you like me.

Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when
in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o},
you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole
period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in
particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time.

--
Daniel Brockman
daniel@brockman.se

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with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by lukebergen on Fri 18 of Dec, 2009 14:05 GMT posts: 493

.ua ki'e

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that I
> > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind
> of
> > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca}
> is
> > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from
> > {ca'o}?
>
> I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.
>
> Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that
> {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time.
>
> While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point
> in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This
> means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu
> brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu
> brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}.
>
> .i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi
> I like you when you like me.
> I like you at some instant when you like me.
>
> .i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi
> I like you while you like me.
> I like you the whole time you like me.
>
> Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when
> in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o},
> you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole
> period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in
> particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time.
>
> --
> Daniel Brockman
> daniel@brockman.se
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>

Posted by baisong on Fri 18 of Dec, 2009 14:39 GMT posts: 99

{mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.

How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here?
Then it could align with the Chinese structure:

你喜欢我时，我喜欢你
ní xǐhuān wǒ shí, wó xǐhuān nǐ
{do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do }

mi'e .ku'us. .i mu'o

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 22:00, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> .ua ki'e
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that
>> I
>> > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind
>> of
>> > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca}
>> is
>> > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from
>> > {ca'o}?
>>
>> I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.
>>
>> Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that
>> {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time.
>>
>> While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point
>> in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This
>> means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu
>> brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu
>> brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}.
>>
>> .i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi
>> I like you when you like me.
>> I like you at some instant when you like me.
>>
>> .i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi
>> I like you while you like me.
>> I like you the whole time you like me.
>>
>> Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when
>> in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o},
>> you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole
>> period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in
>> particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time.
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Brockman
>> daniel@brockman.se
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
>> lojban-list-request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>>
>>
>

2009/12/18 Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>:
> {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.
>
> How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here?
> Then it could align with the Chinese structure:
>
> 你喜欢我时，我喜欢你
> ní xǐhuān wǒ shí, wó xǐhuān nǐ
> {do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do }

Some possibilities:

(1) ca lo nu do nelci mi kei mi nelci do

(2) lo nu do nelci mi zo'u ca ku mi nelci do

(3) do nelci mi .i ca bo mi nelci do

(1) is the closest in meaning, but you need to put "ca" in front of
the subordinate clause. (2) has a slightly different structure, with
the subordinate clause as a topic. (3) is the least wordy and
superficially the most similar, but there is no longer a subordinate
clause, the reference clause is now at the same level as the other
clause.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

Posted by baisong on Sat 19 of Dec, 2009 01:28 GMT posts: 99

.ua ki'e

2009/12/19 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>

> 2009/12/18 Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>:
> > {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.
> >
> > How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here?
> > Then it could align with the Chinese structure:
> >
> > 你喜欢我时，我喜欢你
> > ní xǐhuān wǒ shí, wó xǐhuān nǐ
> > {do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do }
>
> Some possibilities:
>
> (1) ca lo nu do nelci mi kei mi nelci do
>
> (2) lo nu do nelci mi zo'u ca ku mi nelci do
>
> (3) do nelci mi .i ca bo mi nelci do
>
> (1) is the closest in meaning, but you need to put "ca" in front of
> the subordinate clause. (2) has a slightly different structure, with
> the subordinate clause as a topic. (3) is the least wordy and
> superficially the most similar, but there is no longer a subordinate
> clause, the reference clause is now at the same level as the other
> clause.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>